Need some expert advice on my possible new dog

[Rowdy Boys]

You know, I've been following both these threads since the start, and I just want to comment and compliment everyone involved on how well the posts have gone. There are obviously several different viewpoints on this topic, and everyone has been able to speak their mind and opinions in a very mature and open-minded way as well as listen to and respect other people's opinions. appicon

Kaylee sounds like a wonderful future pet for you and your family. I am not surprised that the breeder would not entertain the idea of having her spayed. From what you've shared so far, it sounds like this breeder has a good program and I do not believe she would put Kaylee through another litter if she didn't think she was strong enough (not just physically, but emotionally as well). It sounds as if she's been very active in Kaylee's life and has a clear understanding of her personality and temperment and what she and her body can or cannot tolerate (once again emotionally as well as physically). If the breeder did not feel you could provide Kaylee what she needs, she would have never offered her to you in the first place.

If you're worried about getting attached or causing insecurities for Kaylee by transporting her back and forth between you and the breeder while she's bred and the during whelping, you can always decide to leave her with the breeder until after she has a litter. Remember though, the attempt at breeding may not be successful during her next season - so, if you do decide to leave her with the breeder from now until she's had the litter, you could be looking at maybe a year before she's had this final litter.

I know you want another boxer so bad right now. If you feel like you need to wait until after the litter is whelped, if Kaylee truly is the dog for you and your family, won't she be worth the wait?

I know it's a hard decision to make. Will the breeder compromise and entertain the idea of holding off one season to breed her so Kaylee is able to get settled in with your family?

Just my $.02 - I am sorry it's so long.

Brenda

 

[Vela]

Well with the new information about the breeder and Kaylee's situation I don't think it would be a major issue. I was under the impression that she had just been sent back to this lady very recently and she was trying to rehome her so quickly but wanted one more litter to replace the cost of giving her to you. It sounds like this breeder knows a lot about this girl and is trying very hard to find a good home for her and by the further explanatino after talking to her it doesn't sound like she just wants her for a money machine. Since Kaylee has been there for some time and knows the breeder well and has spent time with her throughout her life that makes it a lot less stressful for her than all of a sudden showing up with a stranger than another and back to the first. It really wouldn't be so drastic a change as it seemed prior to knowing all of that. I had a very bad experience but it sounds like she will be a good support and be willing to explain all of the breeding issues, etc with you.
There is the possibility something could happen to Kaylee with the whelping but from her history she would probably be just fine. And honestly we never know how long our babies will be with us even when we don't breed them.

From what you have described it really doesn't sound as bad as it did at first. If it was me I would probably go for it. Discuss with your hubby and weigh the pros and the cons.

Good luck!

 

[Rowdy Boys]

Another thing that in my opinion shows me the breeder truly has Kaylee's best interest at heart is how she isn't rushing you towards a decision. She has told you to take your time and think it over. Not only has she proven that she will take her own dogs back (as any good breeder will), she is not trying to force her into just any new home. She has chosen you for a reason, but she wants to make sure you a completely comfortable with the situation and she is not going to rush you into making a commitment - even though she does/wants/needs to rehome Kaylee, the breeder is comfortable holding onto Kaylee herself.

Brenda

 

[SammynDqtz]

Originally posted by Rowdy Boys
Another thing that in my opinion shows me the breeder truly has Kaylee's best interest at heart is how she isn't rushing you towards a decision. She has told you to take your time and think it over. Not only has she proven that she will take her own dogs back (as any good breeder will), she is not trying to force her into just any new home. She has chosen you for a reason, but she wants to make sure you a completely comfortable with the situation and she is not going to rush you into making a commitment - even though she does/wants/needs to rehome Kaylee, the breeder is comfortable holding onto Kaylee herself.

Brenda

Yes, I too thought that spoke pretty highly of the breeder.
From what you have posted about Kaylee and this breeder seems to be great to me. As, I believe I said in my first post... I do not believe one more litter would be bad. This breeder does sound like she knows what she is doing. And she does deserve a hand for even what was said above by Brenda. Good luck and best wishes no matter what you decide on. Keep us posted.

 

[Joan I.]

Hi everyone:

Well, after a long chat with my husband last night, and a good night's sleep, we have decided we are going to meet this dog.

Although we would prefer to take her home and spay her, it is clear that the breeder is going to breed her one more time, whether she is with us or not. That is the situation with this dog. If we don't take her, not only will she be bred again, but she will have lost the opportunity to have a wonderful "forever" home, (with us anyway...) When I really think about the dog, I believe us taking her is what she would want, it is in her best interest. Yes, we could " not do business" with the breeder cause we don't want her to be bred again, but who really loses there? Kaylee. I do understand that by taking her we are in a fashion contributing to her being bred again, but I know that if we didn't take her it wouldn't stop her from being bred, and I am also not convinced that the breeder is really doing anything wrong by wanting another litter out of a dog that she feels has great breeding potential. It seems to me that that is what breeders are doing, striving to continually improve the overall excellence of the breed. If a breeder sees a great opportunity to do this with a healthy bitch, plus she can get her a great home at the same time, why would she not want to try another litter with her?

I do see that it is not in the best interest of Kaylee. Of course if she could chose she would want to stay a home where she will be the "spoiled" dog, doing only and all the things dogs love to do. I am sure she would not chose to be bred again, but like one of the other people on this thread commented, when would any dog chose to be bred? When is it ever in "their" best interest to go through all that? If we always only considered that aspect of breeding, there wouldn't ever be any wonderful boxers for us to have as pets. Yes, so unfortunately, there is a huge number of pets that are euthanized each year due to unethical breeding practices. But if a person takes care to deal with only an ethical breeder, then perhaps we wouldn't have this problem. It seems to me the good breeders are taking great care to place their puppies in homes where the chances are very slim the dog will end up in rescue. And I do get the feeling from this breeder she deeply cares about her dogs and their well being. However, she also wants to continue her work of improving her breed line, and that's an important priority for her too. So Kaylee is caught up in all that, somewhere in the middle.

And hey, is it really so bad for her? The breeder takes great care of her, yes she lost her home, but she's on her way to another great home, and she is going to have to have another litter, but all is not lost for her. She will be well loved during every stage of her pregnancy, and well cared for during the whelping process. Then she will come back home, be spayed, and then it will be all about her for the rest of her life. Not the perfect existence for her, but pretty darn good considering what some poor dogs have to call a life.

As far as what we are looking at, my husband and I, we were willing to adopt an older dog, and we were on the list for a rescue boxer. That means we are willing to take a dog with problems. We are willing to look at a dog that is not "perfect," does not have every single thing on our "perfect" dog list. The situation with Kaylee is not "perfect." If we pass her up, to see what happens with the next dog that comes along, what will be that dog's story? In what ways again might we have to compromise on some aspect of what we feel would be important to this dog now? One thing that we cannot compromise on is saftey for our children. So that virtually eliminates a dog that has been badly treated for a period of time, or one with an unknown history. And that eliminates a lot of rescue dogs for us. (Unfortunately...) We know this dog's history, and she has the perfect temperment for our family. That means a ton for us.

So, overall, the sitaution is not exactly as I would want it, but I still think we can be something very very good for this girl, and she for us. And I do think the breeder is within her rights as a breeder to want another litter out of her. Who knows, maybe the puppies Kaylee will have will bring a tremendous amount of pure love and joy to their own forever families!

I do thank everyone so much for having the caring to spend time sharing their thoughts and opinions. It has been a very valuable education for me, and I will never look at the purchase of a dog the same way again. So everyone did their job very well. They have educated me, and hopefully the many others who have read these posts, about what it means to ethically buy a dog. And that will have a ripple effect out into the community. (When I bought Buster, it was from what I now know is a back yard breeder. Fortunately it turned out well for us, and him, he was a great dog. But now I know I wouldn't go that route again.)

I am waiting for a call back from the breeder this morning. Hopefully all goes well and she stills feels confident in me to take this dog, after all my worried questions yesterday!

And now comes the most important part: meeting this dog! It may not work out! I am bringing my two children, and that will be the acid test. That part has to work.

Thanks again everyone, and I'll keep you posted!

Joni

PS I did read a few people's suggestions that we wait til Kaylee is bred again. We are considering that, however it would be difficult for me to wait many months for her, when I know she could be here, enjoying doggie luxury, and with us enjoying her. I am willing to risk my heart again, and take a chance on loving her, and (God forbid, ) losing her. When it comes right down to it, that is a risk I must take with ANY dog I adopt, even a puppy. We never know when they are going to leave us. If I am not willing to risk hurt and grief, I should not be getting any dog. Thanks again...

 

[LeedsDevil]

I am glad you have given this so much thought and are going into this with your eyes wide open. I think you will make Kaylee a wonderful Mom and she will as spoiled as any boxer should be!

I also think that this breeder is also doing the right thing...she has worked hard to get her lines where they are and with Kaylee being such a good representative of the breed (healthy and pointed). When kaylee was origanly placed into a home it was probably on a breeding type of contract so that she could contniue her line whle still making sure that the dog was well cared for as a pet, then a show/breeding animal. I have seen breeders who keep the best pups from thier lines in thier homes...after a few litters they have more dogs then they can properly spend quality time with! So letting choice pups go is sometimes in the best interest of all those concerned.

I personaly would give my eye teeth to be able to have such a good breeder willing to let me have such a wonderful dog. And I bet there are others out there who feel the same. Unfortunatly there are more BYB then good ones, but hopefully the tide will change and the good will outnumber the bad soon!

Please keep us informed and we all would love to see pics of Kaylee!

Jennifer & Cookie

 

[SammynDqtz]

This breeder sounds like someone with whom I would like to get a good boxer from. Everything is sounding well. Let us know how the talk with the breeder goes. I wouldn't think she'd feel worried about the concerns you had the other day... a good breeder welcomes the questions and will be willing to provide answers for you and it shows that you are concerned and only want to do what is best. Good luck with the meeting.

 

[peanutmom]

I know little to nothing about breeding and whelping and all that other stuff but in reading this thread here are the things that crossed my mind.

Since Kaylee has been there for some time and knows the breeder well and has spent time with her throughout her life that makes it a lot less stressful for her than all of a sudden showing up with a stranger than another and back to the first.

I think it is wonderful that you are going to give this girl a home. I am thinking that maybe you could take her to visit on a regualr basis during her pregnancy so that when she is back there to have her litter she would still be very familiar with those surroundings and make the transition from home, away, home, a bit easier on her.

Not knowing much about breeders I have to say that I too am impressed with the fact that the breeder told you to take your time and make the decision that is right for you - that tells me that she wants what is right for Kaylee! She did not tell you to get lost or forget about the whole deal, she told you to think about it some more. Somehow I am thinking you should not have any concerns about her losing confidence that your family is right for Kaylee, if anyhting...the fact that you are concerned and asked questions should impress her and convince her that much more that you will provide a good loving home for this precious girl.

Good luck, I can't wait to hear how the meeting goes. I am excited for you!! I can remember how excited I was when I went to meet Chewy - what a great feeling :p

 

[Kimber & Mac]

I too think that this may work out well for you and your family. I have read this thread with interest, and have had a tough time making up my mind about the situation. But it does seem that this is a reputable, caring breeder interested in helping out both the breed and the dog (and you!). I hope it all works out. Also, it does seem that the breeder will only like you more for all your questions. You are only showing how much you care about Kaylee already.

Good luck and get some pics up ASAP!
Kimberly

 

[buddy'smom]

I know of two people who purchased their bitch from a breeder with the same breeding contract, one friends contract went without a hitch, his female was bred on her first heat after they bought her, she was bred and whelped a healthy litter of 7. During that time, the breeder covered all expenses for the bitch and 2 weeks prior to whelping the bitch went to stay with the breeder until the puppies were old enough. She returned back to my friends untraumatized by the ordeal, was spayed and is living a happy boxer life.

My other friend contacted the breeder each time his bitch went into heat, for the next 3 heats. Each time, it was not the right timing for the breeder. Feeling that this could go on forever, they were getting frustrated with the breeder. As they said, each time she went into heat they had to be so careful with her so as not to get caught by the dog 2 miles away Finally after many many phonecalls, they sat down with the breeder, and found out she had no idea when the timing would be right to have the bitch bred, so they convinced the breeder to forgo the contract and allow them to have the bitch spayed. So from this situation I learned should I ever consider a contract such as this, I would ask a time frame be stipulated, however I have no idea if this is possible from a breeders point of view. Thankfully, the breeder in this case finally fessed up and allowed the spaying, otherwise they would have been bound by the contract for the lifetime of the boxer.
My question to breeders is: Is it okay when purchasing a bitch under such a contract, to ask the breeder to include a time stipulation clause in the contract?

Jean