Seeking opinions on breeder

[Cami]

I have located what I think to be a very reputable breeder. I have not questioned her on alot of specifics, just more or less e-mailing, each getting a feel for the other. I have researched her lines and they are impressive and she has produced champions and has bred with such. What drew me to her was the fact that a sire that she had used over the past 6 years (who is a much well known sire), one of the top 10 producers of champions, is also in my girl Cami's line.

Since I am still in the research stage concerning adding a new addition to the family, I would value any opinions on a few questions.

Hubby and I are both set on a white male pup. After telling her this info and letting her know that I understand that reputable breeders don't "breed" for whites but that sometimes an "oops" does ocour and some are produced she told me that this particular litter that is due on Dec 5th might very well produce even a few whites because of both parents being flashy.

I don't mean "oops" as in a mistake was made. I was just under the impression that reputable breeders would try to alleviate whites in their litters. I am now getting the impression (from myself, not from her) that maybe breeding in order to get the closest possible to standard and also trying to better the breed that indeed this does happen, knowingly?????

I gave her my story as far as what my expectations were, what we have to offer and was told that I needed to contact her after the 5th to see what the litter consisted of. This is fine with me. I was also told that I would be put at the top of her list for one of her whites if indeed one was produced.

So.....the fact that she does not know me from Adam, (except thru e-mails, which were quite lengthy in information), she is willing to put me at the top of a list. Shouldn't a "responsible breeder" have a waiting list a mile long? Or could it just be the fact that I am seeking a pet (only) and the fact that my request is for a white? She does sell alot of her pups for show, and she also co-owns a few as well.

She also stated that it would be with a neuter contract, (fine with us) but also that she "probably" would not allow papers?

I have not got into any information reguarding health testing as of yet, but assuming that both dam and sire have been health tested properly and all is well does this avenue seem worth pursuing?

Thanks in advance.

Susi & Cami

 

[boxer]

Good breeders will usually have a waiting list, yes But the reality of producing puppies (whether we like it or not) is that they are subject to the same laws of supply and demand as any other commodity. Sometimes everybody wants a female, sometimes a fawn, etc. So not being particular, or seeking something that others are not can help. I'm sure that the fact that you're looking for a white pup is in your favour, as most people (even if they end up falling for a white) are initially looking for a coloured puppy.

As for breeding to not produce whites - well, in an ideal world yes. But the reality of showing often means that breeders are aiming for flashily marked puppies and will breed two flashy dogs together to ensure a high percentage of flashy pups in the litter. Breeding two flashy dogs will also result in about 25% whites So it could well be that your breeder knows she's likely to have some whites in this litter, and doesn't have a line up of people looking for a white puppy.

Just as a clarification though - just because someone has bred two flashy dogs together and will therefore produce some white puppies, it doesn't necessarily mean they are unethical. It could be that a flashy dog was the best match for her (also flashy) bitch. And that's quite OK. It is only when a flashy-flashy match is chosen primarily or exclusively because it will produce flashy pups that the ethics of such a breeding should be questioned. Flashy markings do NOT make a better boxer, and of course it produces a high proportion of non-standard pups (whites). In short, there's nothing wrong with a breeder producing white puppies as a by-product of an intent to improve a line. However, if they're produced as a by-product of breeding solely for white markings, then one has to say that that breeder doesn't really understand the concept of 'bettering the breed'. A very good (and valid) question you could ask your breeder is what was she trying to achieve by this breeding? Hopefully the answer will be along the lines of the stud having qualities that complemented those of the bitch, no similar weaknesses, and perhaps some particular outstanding features that would be an improvement on the breeder's current outputs

 

[kassa]

Did she actually say you could have a puppy? Because it might just be that you're at the top of the list to be interrogated once she knows what she has

Too many people express an interest and then disappear because they can't wait 3 weeks, let alone 8 or 9. So it's generally safest to chat a bit with somebody, get an idea of whether they are likely a good pet home, and then invite them to call back for more specifics later. Especially if they want a white pup and there's no guarantee there'll be one.

The issue with the "probably will not allow papers" is that while the American Boxer Club membership voted to allow members (and member club members) to give white pups Limited Registration on spay/neuter contracts, technically the old Code of Ethics is still in effect until the new one is approved by the AKC. Which means to give papers under the present rules could be considered a breach of the Code of Ethics.

I haven't heard an actual date for the official AKC ruling -- maybe March? At any rate, this breeder may simply be waiting for the ink to dry on the new rules. She will still have the right to sell the pup without papers, though, so it's also possible she just isn't comfortable with the new policy yet and will wait to see how things go before registering her first white pups.

 

[Cami]

Thanks for your replies. No, she didn't say that I would get a pup just that I would be at the top of her list for a white male if one was produced. I still hane not interrogated her yet either

In one of the many e-mails I told her the entire story of how Cami came to be, the issues we have dealt with in caring for her and the ways that we are providing a home for her.

I tried to be as honest as possible including the fact that she came from a BYB before we knew any better. I think that I wrote so much info that she really didn't have too many questions for me.

We will see what Dec 5th brings when the litter the is due.

Susi & Cami

 

[JulieM]

The issue with the "probably will not allow papers" is that while the American Boxer Club membership voted to allow members (and member club members) to give white pups Limited Registration on spay/neuter contracts, technically the old Code of Ethics is still in effect until the new one is approved by the AKC. Which means to give papers under the present rules could be considered a breach of the Code of Ethics.

OT, sorry, but I don't think that's correct. The AKC has to approve the revised standard before it becomes effective, and would have to approve any change to the constitution and/or by-laws, but I don't think they have anything to do with Codes of Ethics. The AKC does not require clubs to have COEs, and suggests those that do have them use them simply as educational tools.

 

[RVsBoxer]

Best Home

She could've also put you at the top of her list because, after all your long emails explaining everything about yourself and Cami, maybe she has a good feeling about you, and feels you could provide a better home than some of the other candidates she's spoken to. :p Good breeders will give the puppy to the best possible home, not just the person who called first.

 

[shannonmac]

when we were looking for our AB, I knew that I wanted to make sure I found a reputable breeder. it took us going for a 12 hour ride to pennsylvania, but it was worth it!
I, like you, emailed the breeder. we emailed back and forth for a couple months. at first we had wanted a male puppy.
however when she ended up taking back one of her puppies who was 1 year old, she contacted us first.
I think it was due to the wealth of information I gave her about us, and the fact that I asked her all the questions about health testing, and everything else.
I was really impressed with her and myself, if it wasn't for boxerworld I wouldn't have known the questions to ask.
I now realize that kneesaa came from a byb. I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world. but I wanted to make sure we did things right the 2nd time around.

 

[Shanz]

just wante to know how your puppy search was coming along and if a white male was produced?

 

[Cami]

I e-mailed the breeder and still haven't heard anything. I am sure she is extremely busy with the new arrivals. Hopefully I will hear something soon.

 

[Cami]

Heard from the breeder tonight. The pups were born, there were 7 in the litter and all are doing great, including mom. There was a white female....we want a male.

After getting to speak with her at length I found out that she doesn't do all of the health testing that I would prefer. She said that she is being mentored by the Heart Acres kennel owners here in Ohio, and that they suggest that males be the most tested as they are the ones producing the majority of the litters vs the females. I don't agree with this.

So, still waiting on our white male pup. Everything happens for a reason, guess this time it just wasn't meant to be, at least I won't have to do any potty training in the dead of winter!

Susi & Cami