Puppy Cost?

[Kerry Jane]

It is an interesting discussion.

In the case I was referring to the $400 did not include the s/n deposit. It was a really expensive litter for them because the dam got sick, and they pretty much had to hand raise all of the puppies. But, all of the vet bills were attributed to the dam and not the puppies. So, I mean - they don't really have a leg to stand on......
They are totally against giving puppies away for free, but it seems like in this matter there really isn't a choice.

When this happened I spoke with a couple of my other breeder friends to find out what they do, and they said the simplest thing is to simply place the puppies with a s/n deposit.

It makes those plain dogs look awfully attractive......

 

[gmacleod]

It makes those plain dogs look awfully attractive......

That may be the point

 

[sweetboxer]

First off, I think $1800 is outrageous....regardless of the line. Was that for pet AND show potential pups, or were they charging the same for all colored pups?

First of all, the majority of the litter was show potential except obviously for the white puppies. Second of all, $1800 for a show potential pup here is nothing. The line is out of Jacquet and Hi-Tech lines primarily, and I know that Jacquet boxers can easily go for $2000+. While I understand that white Boxers are no different than colored Boxers as far as pets go, there is a big difference among them in regards to registering, showing, and breeding. My pup came with a neuter contract b/c he's white, which follows the ABC guidelines. The breeder told me that the price fo the white puppies basically paid for the cost of whelping/raising the entire litter. Where the money makes a difference is on the colored puppies. There were 5 colored puppies and 3 whites. Considering that both parents were health tested to the fullest extent, one colored puppy would cover the echo only for one parent. That leaves a second puppy to cover the other parent's echo, which leaves 3 puppies to cover all the expenses for the xrays and holters. So, it seems to me that the breeder really isn't making any money at all here, which is the point, isn't it? A truly great breeder is breeding to better the breed, not to make money.
I did not intend to start an argument about the cost of white puppies. I was only trying to give someone some help on pricing, which still in my mind, is directly in proportion to where you live. I live in a suburb of Philadelphia, but if I were to drive further west into rural PA, the prices would drop a bit. It's all relative.

 

[GoCougs]

First of all, the majority of the litter was show potential except obviously for the white puppies.

That's awefully pretentious, if you ask me. In most litters, a breeder hopes for one, maybe two, show potential pups.

Second of all, $1800 for a show potential pup here is nothing. The line is out of Jacquet and Hi-Tech lines primarily, and I know that Jacquet boxers can easily go for $2000+.

$1800 for a show potential pup isn't extremely high in most places. However, again, most breeders don't think "the majority of the litter is show potential" and can garner that kind of money for every colored pup in every litter. Unfortuneately, some people think dogs are like cars, and pay for the "name on the hood". The reality is, the dogs out of those program live just as long, make just as good a companion and have the same chance in the ring as dogs from other established programs that don't get/ask those prices. The only difference you pay for is a name.

There were 5 colored puppies and 3 whites. Considering that both parents were health tested to the fullest extent, one colored puppy would cover the echo only for one parent. That leaves a second puppy to cover the other parent's echo, which leaves 3 puppies to cover all the expenses for the xrays and holters. So, it seems to me that the breeder really isn't making any money at all here

You stated that they asked $500 for the whites, $1800 for the colored. (5 x $1800) + (3 x $500) = $10,500.

They aren't making any money here? Unless everything went wrong during the pregnancy and rearing of the puppies, $10,500 is alot to spend on the average litter with few problems. Assuming that's the case, as it usually is, it's a stretch to say they really aren't making any money.

A truly great breeder is breeding to better the breed, not to make money.

Yes, and no.

 

[sweetboxer]

I can only tell you what the breeder told me. She whelped the litter for a friend who had just died, and the friend's daughter, (who is also a breeder,) couldn't take care of them b/c of her mother's funeral, etc. The price of the pups was the daughter's decision, not the breeder who whelped the litter. She said she would not have charged as much for the colored pups herself, but it wasn't her choice. It seemed to my breeder that maybe the daughter doesn't know as much as her mother had, but I honestly don't know b/c I hadn't met her. I have spoken with her and she's been very helpful.

Anyway, it's a complicated story to follow, I know. I tried to choose the best breeder that I could find and the breeder who whelped the litter was the most helpful and knowledgable breeder I had met. It was a difficult circumstance that she came to be involved with the litter, and unfortunately, the only thing she was in charge of was taking care of mommy and the litter. She did say she didn't think she'd whelp for this particular breeder again. Makes you wonder what her whole take on the situation was...

 

[gmacleod]

Well, I don't think you found a "bad" breeder - the fact that full health screening was done, and the dogs shown is alone enough to tell you that.

On the question of cost though... health screening is not *that* expensive. You're talking several hundred dollars for each dog - and that's one reason we're so derisive here of those BYB morons who're so mean they can't fork out that amount to help ensure that people get a healthy pup and to avoid the breed being overtaken by avoidable health issues - since it would cut into their profit making by a little bit. Well, that's getting off the point a bit...

Point is, a dog doesn't need to cost $1800 to recover the costs of health screening for the parents. There may be other valid reasons for that price tag - but it isn't attributable solely or even largely to the cost of health screening.

 

[GoCougs]

I'm not attacking the reputability of the breeder in question. Not at all. Nor am I attacking you for choosing that breeder. Certainly their ethics are better than the breeder who just breeds his two pets because they're cute and he needs a couple extra bucks. I'm attacking the concept of treating boxers as a way to make a profit.....a commodity, if you will. Treating dogs as a profit making machine, no matter how ethical you are, is apple and apples.

You can't attack backyard breeders under the guise of, "you're just doing it for a profit", and turn around a do the same thing and justify it by saying that you health test and show. It my eyes, it's not all that different. If you are redirecting some of your profit to health testing and showing, and then charging more, your profit margin is potentially the same.

The goal of any breeder should be the "betterment of the breed." Without prejudice, and without regard for the money that can be made.

 

[Kerry Jane]

First let me state that I don't think that $1800 is excessive for a show puppy (after all I paid more for my show bitch).
However, I did want to state that it doesn't cost $1800 to do an echo. I estimate that it cost me around $1000 to do ALL of the health testing on my bitch. Even if I added in the price of the holter monitor that a friend and I bought the price for everything would be less than the price for one show puppy.

 

[Net45582]

This is a great thread to follow. It opens up all sorts of questions......
I see two types of show categories. Show for fun and show for profit....Of course the show for profit dogs(high profile shows) are going to demand more for thier off spring just like race horses...... This makes me think if I contact a breeder who has mated 2 very successful show dogs the puppies will cost much more than if I contacted a local shower/breeder for one of their pups. Just like anything else,I expect to pay more for better quality.....just a thought

 

[GoCougs]

Of course the show for profit dogs(high profile shows) are going to demand more for thier off spring just like race horses......

Why should they? Dog judging is subjective, and flawed by personal preference, interpretation and bias...and that is intentional. In horse racing, the fastest horse wins every time.

Just like anything else,I expect to pay more for better quality

Again, quality is subjective. In most cases, when it comes to dogs, you pay for a name and a "lottery ticket". In the case of "big name kennels," you pay for the chance that your puppy turns out to be as good as other dogs that have been produced by that breeder.

I see two types of show categories. Show for fun and show for profit

I think it's pretty obvious which category I'm in.