I'm so frustrated I need support(kind of long)

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Maggie'sMom

Super Boxer
Finding the right breeder is so frustrating. Besides contacting recommended boxer Club Breeders, I have been screening breeders through an internet puppyfinding site, and 9x out of 10 they do no health testing on the parents. I write back and tell them how important it is and that I will not buy a puppy from one who does not do health testing. I wonder if this will make any impact on these BYB. I guess if enough people insist on health testing- It might. There are so many people out there thta just do not know!
Some of the BYB are very nice people, convincing me that they have not had any health problems for 8-10 years, and that I can call their Vet. They sound like wonderful caring people, and they say they have had no puppies ever returned, and they give a health guarantee for 1 year.It is so tempting when the puppies and parents are so cute.
This morning I had to reject another, and I had tears in my eyes because I am so frustrated, and was getting my hopes up on this one pup. they said they health tested, but turns out they didn't. I have sat here and cried over too many sad stories about BYB's puppies, and I am trying to hold out, but Isn't taking one of these pups not much different from taking in a rescue?
I could use some support before I cave in.
Ellen
Maggie 17 months
 

boxer

Boxer Insane
Well it's nothing at all like getting a rescue puppy. If you buy a puppy from a BYB, they'll just breed another litter to sell some more. It's perpetuating the problem. So don't be sucked in. There is only one way in the world to stop backyard breeders and the damage they do - and that is not to buy their puppies.

And not having any health defects (that they're telling you about) for 8-10 years means nothing either. On the assumption that these people are at least ethical enough not to breed dogs that are still puppies, and to give the bitches some recovery time between litters, then at best you've got two generations of dogs (not including the original two parents) that are over 4 years old. If one of the six year olds drops dead tomorrow of cardiomyopathy, where does that leave this miraculously problem-free (but untested) line?

A one year health guarantee is worthless. Most genetic problems are not going to surface in that time - not unless they are very severe, anyway. Thyroid problems don't usually show up without testing until a dog is 5 or 6 years old, and if you're not testing for it, then the first sign of cardiomyopathy is often when a dog suddenly collapses and/or dies at 3, 4, 5 years old. Same with hip dysplasia - it is only the most severe of cases that is going to cripple a dog before age 2 or 3.

Most reputable breeders will offer a guarantee that is a minimum of two year, but many offer up to five. Not that a guarantee is ever worth a lot (it doesn't stop a dog having a condition, or save you from the heartbreak that entails), but *if* you have to have a puppy replaced, do you really want one from the same untested stock?

The bottom line on all of this is that as much as we all talk about our dogs as "family members", a puppy is a comodity. BYBs will continue to breed more unfortunate pups as long as they can sell them for a profit. They may sound nice and caring, and they may even be nice and caring - but they don't care enough about the dogs they're producing to screen for (and in some cases, even to know about) genetic diseases that are going to impact on the length and quality of life of any affected puppies. That's too much effort, or would cut their profit. And as long as we all want what we want 'right now' and are prepared to buy from those sorts of people, the cycle will continue.
 

KonaKoffe

Boxer Pal
I understand what you are going thru because I ran in to the same situatoin when we were looking. Eventually we had to compromise and went with a breeder that did not do the health testing but met our other requirements. Yes, I realize it is a gamble but I have also come to realize after discussions on this forum and talking to our vet that there are no gurantees even with the health testing. This was our personal decision.

I started dealing with a breeder of boxers that we found on our regional boxer clubs website. A long standing member who has been breeding and showing boxers for 30 yrs and when I asked her about health testing she said they didn't do it because they have never had any historical problems in their lines.
She met all the recommended criteria except the health testing and she still wanted $1000. This was typical of other breeders I contacted or they had no pups available.
We ended up going with another breeder based on cost and our other criteria such as location, examination of their facilities, seeing the parents, etc.

If we could have found a breeder that met all the recommended criteria I would have gone with them first. Unfortunately we had to come to terms with the reality of our situation.
 

TheBoxerCrew

Super Boxer
I know how frustrating it is. It took me almost 8 YEARS to find George's breeder and finally have him in my arms. It comes down to how much flexibility are you willing to have? I didn't have much at all. I had been burned x2 with dogs from BYBs, and was hellbent on not having a repeat. Even WITH the health tested parents, there were still no promises of a 100% health-issue-free pup. I knew that. I was simply trying to lower my chances of getting burned again. I got lucky.

Rescue vs. BYB - not the same, although you may feel that way. By BUYING from a BYB, you are giving them incentive to produce another litter....there is a demand, and they must "supply". By ADOPTING (some still call it BUYING) from a rescue, you are getting a dog who has had most (if not ALL) medical care provided, and while their backgrounds are often clouded with mystery, you have a better idea of the dog's personality, quirks, and likes/dislikes (kids, cats, other dogs).
 

boxer

Boxer Insane
And importantly, by getting a dog from a rescue, you don't put one red cent into the pocket of a backyard breeder. So you're not contributing to any incentive for them to breed again.

The money you pay for a rescue dog covers the cost of care that particular dog has received (including medical expenses, though not necessarily in full), and helps to cover the cost of future rescues.
 

TheBoxerCrew

Super Boxer
boxer said:
The money you pay for a rescue dog covers the cost of care that particular dog has received (including medical expenses, though not necessarily in full), and helps to cover the cost of future rescues.

I wish more realized what ONE rescue costs. I am getting ready to take in THREE rescues in a couple days (11mo old momma Boxer and her 2 100% full-tailed/dew-clawed female Boxer pups, currently in isolation/ICU type situation at my vet's home while I prepare mine for them), and I know I am looking at HUNDREDS of dollars in medical in the next 3-4 months. Momma (28lbs) looks like a skeleton with tightly stretched skin, so will need LOTS of good food and supplements to get her back to a suitable weight (vet wants to see her "pushing 60"). Her vaccinations are coming due in a couple months, and I am sure she'll still be here. She had Whip and Hookworms, so was wormed. She has been bathed, de-flea'd and started on Program. Her *ahem* owners (I say that lightly) felt that heartworm meds were a waste of money and when their 6mo supply ran out, they didn't get more (luckily, this was just a couple months ago and she has tested HW-). Her babies have already had 1 round of vaccinations, been wormed, started HW meds, started Program for fleas (what I use), and more rounds coming. 3 spays to do, momma's will be more, since she is in such poor condition and we need to work quickly with lighter "knock-out gas" than normal. She also has a considerable umbilical hernia which will be repaired at that same time, not to mention a large lump in one of her breasts - could be infection, fatty mass or tumor, will not know til the pathology report post-surgery. One of the pups has an umbilical hernia as well, so she will be spayed in the near future and that repaired. Momma has a broken "fang" needing a cap or removal, depending on how damaged the tooth is. Even with price breaks and "group rates", the surgeries alone for momma (her "owners" never named her, she is just called "Dog") will be in excess of $250. This is ONLY the spay, lump removal, hernia repair, and dental check/clean/repair. The "owners" brought them in to have them put down, they thought the momma had parvo because she was throwing up and so skinny. The vet actually "pumped" her stomach and what was there was the remnants of moldy food and garbage. She was most likely eating anything she could just to stay alive. By the marks on her neck, she was chained up too. The vet let the "owners" know that she WAS in poor shape, but not dying from parvo. When he told them she WAS cureable, they said she was worthless - she had 10 pups and only these 2 are still alive....the vet had a tech call me about taking them in, and then gave them the "they can go to a rescuer" option, which they took. Animal control was sent to their address after a report from the vet to look for the male dog. He was seized for neglect among other violations, and is currently staying with friends of mine while the legal case is pending (since momma is showing signs of possibly going into heat again). He too was skeletal and near death, and not more than 11-14 months old. I have already agreed that if the "owners" are not given back the dog, and do not pay his medical bills (pending legal proceedings) that I would do it, and then place him also. So, there is a chance of my taking on a 4th dog in this mess.

I know that despite the hundreds I put in to each one, anyone interested in adopting will NOT consider paying what it cost for the medical on that particular dog. I will be lucky to see $100 each. My vet knows me well enough to know that if the "right people" don't come along, my crew just grew by 3 or 4. So be it. They are welcome here and will be loved just like the rest - even if the pups have (ouch) tails.

In the past, when I worked with a rescue here, people calling to ask about our prices/dogs/cats would grumble at the price. At the time (10 yrs ago), cat adoptions were $35 and dogs were $45. This barely covered their sterilizations (our prices were: cat neuter-$25; cat spay/dog neuter-$30; dog spay-$35), much less routine vaccinations, food, heartworm meds, worming, de-flea and de-tick baths and dips, and anything extra they might need like collars, leashes, training classes. We (as a board, which I was on at the time) decided that with each adoption we would include in the packet a cost breakdown for that animal. It was AMAZING how the adopters changed their tune! Many even started getting friends and family to make small donations to help us out. When they realized that we put $100-$200-$300 more than they paid for an adoption fee into the animal, they sure weren't grumbling anymore!

I know many here on BW have complained about being turned down by rescues for one reason or another, but it happens, and it is the decision of the rescue. Some have even grumbled about the "high" adoption costs. Stop and think about it. The rescues and rescuers have invested a lot of time, money, sweat and tears into these dogs - more than they will ever be repaid for. They don't do it to make a profit, they ask the fees they do so they can affort to continue helping other dogs. Many that come to rescues nowadays are in such pathetic condition that the rescuers don't know from one day to the next if the dog will survive even the most basic of medical treatments - they are THAT BAD OFF. Those dogs still incur bills, and those must be paid just as the bills of the dogs that survive must be.
 

Maggie'sMom

Super Boxer
This story breaks my heart. I tried for 6 months to rescue with no luck. There are just no rescues in Maryland. I have filled out forms ect...I would like you to somehow keep me posted on how this family of boxers is doing. IF one of the pups were female- I would take it. I have also heard horror stories of putting 2 females together.

Ellen &
Maggie 17 months
 

Kerry Jane

Super Boxer
There are breeder's to be found out there who do health test their dogs.

For the boxer club members that you contacted, did any of them do health testing? Is it possible that one of them could put you on a waiting list for a future litter? What about contacting some of your local kennel clubs and see whether any of them have boxer breeder's who are members? What about expanding your search area? What about going to some dog shows in your area and talking to the people at the show? I don't know what the puppy finding site is looking for - but maybe you need to concentrate on finding a breeder who does everything that you want and can put you on a waiting list.

If you are willing to consider a rescue, could you contact your local humane soceity and ask that if a boxer comes in, that they contact you?

I do think that it is a great idea to write and tell the breeder's why you are not wanting one of their dogs. Unless people start refusing to buy puppies from them, and tell them that it is because of lack of health testing - nothing will ever change.

Good luck with your search!
 

Dunkin

Boxer Insane
My rescue Jagger

The small town I live in had a very bad animal control problem. That is until my husband bacame the Mayor. Now we have the population under control and the animals are registered with the town. Anyway... I found a intact male flashy fawn in April of last year. He was alittle thin and had a bad case of fleas. but otherwise in good condition. I took him to the vet. and had him checked,got his shots and put him on heart worm meds. brought him home and loved him for 3 weeks until his Owner???? came forth. I did not ask for any of my money back just that they give him a good home. They said they would call if they decided not to keep him.Well in Oct. the police called me to come to the city hall and see what they had found. It was him He new me when I pulled up He stood for the first time since they found him. We rushed him to the Vet. and I agreed to pay all expence. He wieghed 27 lbs. was wormy with every kind of worms you can imagine including heart worms. The vet. said she thought he would live with the right care. So he came home with me once again. I got him up to 48 lbs and all his hair came back. We were just about to start his treatment for HW when all of all at once he died. His liver was just to weak. I lost him on Jan. 12th 2005 just 3 days after haveing to put my beloved Max to sleep after 10 years with him. My husband thought he would have to have me comited for the depression I went in. If it had not been for my other fur baby Jazzy( FF female.) I do not know what I would have done. By the way the DA did press charges and she had to pay me back for all vet. charges(not a penny yet) and she had to reg. with the humane soc. and can not own another animal.
 

Angie K

Boxer Booster
BoxerCrew hit the nail on the head. Don't cave in to the BYB's. I work with rescue and it is just ashame what comes in. We just had a former STUD dog given up for what reason I don't know. But anyway he is in good health except on the skinny side and had to be fixed of course, at rescues expense. The saddest part is he loves people and gets along with other dogs but has never learned how to play with toys or be indoors etc. That just goes to show you that he was an Unpaid EMPLOYEE of this BYB, not a pet in a loving home as some would have you think. He is a gorgeous Flashy Fawn Cropped and Docked, so we'll have no problems finding him a home where he will be given the life he should have had from birth. I know with our rescue you can apply and ask to be put on a list for a Puppy if that is what you are looking for. You might want to think about doing that. Good luck in your search.
 
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