I might have to give Shankly up. Please Advise

[Sube Ru's mom]

Uno-

I read your post and agree with some of the things said in it. BUT when you come onto BW, bring up a HOT topic such as giving up a dog and a boxer at that, you can NOT expect people to just lay down and not put in their 2 cents. im sorry, it is not going to happen.
And being one of the people that you were referring to most likely

Originally posted by uno
. Shame on those of you that couldn’t keep your condescending opinions to yourselves. I don’t think that’s what was called for here. This man just wanted advice. It’s my hope that Mikejo can separate the wheat from the chaff on this post.

Yes these are my opinions, and no Mikejo didn't ask for them but I couldn't allow this nonsense to go on any longer without dishing out some of what was served to Mikejo. This isn't meant for all, but some of you need to realize that the written word doesn't come across the same way the spoken word does. When speaking to someone things are detected from the intonation and tone that are not easily transposed or transcribed into the written word.

here is what i have to say.

Yes, Mike came on asking for advice on what he should do and MANY people gave him their advice and some went even as far as BREAKING IT DOWN for him and this was his response

Originally posted by Mikejo
Guys I've got to say that after reading all your replies I'm really pissed off. Apart from the odd few you have all got on your high horses and dished out completly useless advice. Did none of you read the initial post correctly or do you all have blinkers on. If you had taken time to read it properly you would see that it is because we love Shankly so very much that we want the best for her we don't want to get rid of her because she is a hassle to us far from it. We want her to have the highest quality of life possible and my wife (who was reduced to tears by your coments) feel that she is sometimes not able to give her the attention she deserves when I'm not around. As for some of you comparing dogs on an equal level with human babies then I'm sorry but you really do need you heads looking at. Thanks for you comments but in future I'll not bother.

I am sorry but it doesnt sound to me like he really wants advice, what it sounds to me is that he wants to be given permission to give up his dog. I may be wrong but that is the way i read the above post.

The following is from another post that put down rescues and breeders, but it goes on to state my point about having a rescued dog and the emotional issues people have to deal with because people find out they dont have the time they thought they did for a dog, the dog no longer fits in the family, the family had a baby etc etc

Originally posted by Sube Ru's mom
I have not responded to this post for several reasons. One of the reasons was because I was totally disgusted with a few comments made on this issue.
I have 2 RESCUED boxers, Subi was adopted by me at 5 months (found on the side of the road at 4 weeks) Bailey was adopted when she was 6 months.
Do you want to know the reason Bailey was given up? the people were in the MILITARY and didnt want to take her with them, they gave her to a friend who lived in an apartment AND WAS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A DOG, then she went to the rescue for about 3 weeks and then finally she came to us. THAT IS 4 HOMES!!!! including mine that she has been in!!! FOUR in 6 months!!! Pat and I now have to deal with her issues- she is head shy, she gets scared when you take her somewhere thinking that you are going to leave her, and she is scared of people approaching her!!! WE have to deal with these issues!!! and you know why? Because people didnt think about the time that would be involved with owning a dog or they thought the companion that they were bringing into their home was "A DOG"

WRONG, when you agree to bring a animal (dog, cat, horse, brid WHATEVER) they become a part of the family and FEEL they are a part of the family- THEY DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.....

Sorry if I pissed anyone off, But I work with the rescue, I see the dogs that come in, I hear their stories and I see the sadness in their eyes BECAUSE THE OWNERS DIDNT HAVE TIME FOR THEM OR WANT THEM.

Rescued dogs are awesome, i will only have rescued dogs. BUT they do have issues, Some are very timid and will always be afraid of being left behind.
I have been working with Bailey for 5 months and trying to socialize her and she is doing AWESOME but i still can not take her on home visits because she is afraid i am going to leave her, will this change? i dont know.
Being in different homes whether it is 1 or more is a lot of STRESS on a dog. and our point is that instead of coming up with the EASY solution and giving up the dog, work through it, do you really think a dog is going to get upset with you because you dont play with it all the time anymore?
no... as long as you keep the dog with you and give it food, water and some love.. that is all they want. They dont want to go into another home, they are happy where they are.

And also, if i had a kid and i was told that i would have to give up subi and/or bailey otherwise the child will die, then yes i would give them up- BUT THOSE ARE DIFFERENT Circumstances. that is Life Threatening. This situation is NOT!!!

When Mike and his wife bought Shankly they signed on for a lifetime commitment to Shankly!! Mike has not once answered the question if his wife loves shankly or not, he has not answered the question, did they get shankly together and was it a mutual agreement. Did they think about kids when they bought Shankly? And believe me it has been asked SEVERAL times.

Pat and I often talk about when we have kids, and how the dogs will be, when we got subi and bailey we both were like when we are ready and have kids they will be awesome with him/her.

Im sorry but my first concern is the dog NOT THE PERSON and i am sorry that you dont think that some of the things said were important but i know the number one reason dogs are given up and it is because "we had a baby and we dont have time for the dog".

 

[BoxerBombs]

Uno, I agree with you 100% here. Very eloquently written. I read Mikejo's post and didn't assign it additional meaning, I took it for what it said at face value. I didn't "read" it a certain way and have not put my personal spin on what I thought he "really meant" *wink, wink*

While I agree that the family should wait a few months before making a decision (adjustments take time).... this dog may have to be re-homed in a loving environment where ample time and attention can be given to her.

I hope everything turns out well.

 

[cynthia rolfes]

Re: Advice asked for, not opinions

Originally posted by uno

[ Please Advise ”. He didn’t ask for opinions of how we felt about what he thought he “might” have to do. He asked for advice. His very first line says, In the many, not all but many, of the responses members got on their high horses and preached to Mike instead of giving only the advice for which he had asked.
really want to do.]

>Webster's Dictionary:
Adviser: A person who gives an opinion

Webster's New World Thesaurus:
Advise[to give advice] syn. recommend, counsel,prescribe,exhort,direct,admonish,warn,caution,disuade,
preach, put one's two cents worth in.



[ This, to me, is the position Mike believes himself to be. Is he really in that position? No, I don’t think he is, but I think that he perceives himself to be. And perception is reality. By that I mean that if you perceive something to be true/real, then to you it is true/real, regardless of whether its true/real or not.]

> I would have to agree with you whole heartedly. I also believe that it is because of this, Mikejo needs to read about our experiences, so he may understand our thoughts. I don't consider that to be an editorial.


[Shame on those of you that couldn’t keep your condescending opinions to yourselves. I don’t think that’s what was called for here. This man just wanted advice. It’s my hope that Mikejo can separate the wheat from the chaff on this post.]

>If you disagree with someone, it is very difficult to express your opinion without coming across as condescending. I think it has to be extremely hard for all the rescue volunteers who hear this excuse daily. I can understand why some of the responses are less than understanding.
I can also see your point, we are not so perfect ourselves, that we should feel obligated to point out another person's short comings.
But he did ask for our advice (opinion).
This is a very emotionally charged subject. This story is very hard for many of us to understand. We are all hoping and wishing for the very best for Mikejo and his new family. If any advice or opinion we offer helps them, GREAT!
I don't think it is wise to encourage someone to get rid of a family pet "when the going get's tough",
at a web site dedicated to the welfare of boxers.

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

Not reading into anything

Originally posted by Mikejo
As much as I love my dog I have to respect my wifes feelings and if she feels that she can't cope there is only one solution and that is to give Shankly up. This is something I would never think I'd hear myself say. I have thought about all the possible solutions i.e dog walkers etc etc but they are only make weights if I'm honest.

Uno, to be honest, I don't believe people are reading into something that is not here. Mike is saying, point blank, "there is only one solution and that is to give Shankly up." Clearly Mike's mind was already made up before he posted. I took his post to mean he is giving up his dog and he is looking for someone to help find a new home. Of course I and others are hoping he changes his mind.

There honestly is nothing wrong with people responding to this very public appeal and offering their own suggestions and thoughts. That is why Mike posted his quandry. He wanted feedback, right?

Right or wrong, I agree with what someone else posted. It seems Mike is looking for vindication of his decision. If his wife is now sorrowful towards the input given, I am praying it is because she now realizes what a treasure she has in Shankly and would not want to cast away such a loving part of their family. To have a baby grow up with a Boxer is just a match made in heaven. lovicon

 

[Peggy G]

When I am asked for advise I always try to keep my opinion out of it no matter how strongly/emotional I feel about the subject. I have found that when someone is lambasted it only puts that person on the defensive and they dont hear anything else. It is very hard to respond respectfully and with an open mind when you have just been criticized.

I have brought this story up before but when I was new to BW, I posted about breeding Scarlet. I had no clue this was a hot topic. I had no clue anything was wrong with breeding. I had no clue their were Boxers in rescue or why they were there. The answers I got to my posts were respectful and helped to educate me. If I had been ganged up on or blasted right out of the gate....I would have thought (*&% this! and we would be preparing for a litter of pups.

Maybe Mikejo was looking for us to say its ok to get rid of Shankly...BUT maybe he wasnt. He was put on the defensive and now we will never know. I too hope he was able to pull some valuable advise from some of the responses. I hope he and his wife see that maybe they can work through this and maybe it isnt so bad afterall. Thats the kind of thing he needed to hear, I think.

 

[Sube Ru's mom]

Peggy,

I fully agree with you, and maybe I was wrong in... trying to find the right word... but i guess ganging up on him. BUT i also feel like there is NO excuse to give up a dog. Of course unless it is life & death.
I have a hard time accepting when people just want to give up a dog because it is no longer convient or gets in the way.
I understand that mike was probably very defensive, i would have been also BUT i would have come on and said "thank you all for the advice i am going to try this this and this and for everyone else that felt the need to berate me then that is your opinion". but instead he wrote about how we pissed him off and blah blah blah. and never once saying that i am going to try this route.
I think that is why others have gotten on, including myself, and made more comments about how it seems he just wants permission to give up the dog.
I also was very naive when i got into rescue and BW. but because of both rescue and BW i have gotten more educated, and appreciate all the advice that i am given and the comments made.
Some of us come off more *itchy in our posts then we mean to but also some of us, including myself, have STRONG opinions about certain things because we have been there, dont that, seen it.
But i just wanted to say that i know what you mean and i agree with it BUT there are reasons
btw: love your qoute!!

 

[Mom3]

Well UNO, you aren't alone. I thought your post was excellent and I agree with you. I also think that those who berated Mikejo for his response to the initial flood of replies should consider this: Perhaps it was hard for him to see the excellent advice that was given through the angry tide of waving fingers in his face. I still feel that Buddy'smom summed it up very well in her post a couple of pages back. It's just a shame that Mikejo probably never returned to read any further. Do I blame him? Not really.

Should I let the fur babies vs. skin babies debate go without comment? Yes, I'm sure I should. . . I love my animals, but my posting name will probably give you a good idea of where my priorities lie.

 

[VTbxrFan]

Re: Advice asked for, not opinions

Originally posted by uno

There are women around the world that give up their babies for adoption because they want their babies to have a better life than they can provide. Are these woman evil? Are they immoral? Should they be looked down upon? Of course not.

I can't pass on the opportunity to re-emphasize my point. The big difference here is that most women who give up babies didn't intentionally decide to get pregnant. Of course I realize that not using reliable contraception is in fact a choice, but I don't think it is the same type of choice that's involved in buying or adopting a dog. There is no way for that to happen "accidentally" or "unintentionally." (Even if the dog is offered as a gift, it should be refused if the recipient is not willing to accept the responsibility.) I just think it is very important for people to really think through the commitment they are making when they make the choice to get a pet. There are exceptions to every case, but in most cases, a woman decides to give up a baby at birth -- not after the baby has been taken home and made part of the family. It takes a very extreme set of circumstances for parents to give up a child they have raised, yet it is so easy for so many people to give up a pet because it's inconvenient. And whatever the circumstances, most women who choose to give up there babies have done so only after a tremendous amount of thought when it truly seems to be the only option. I would just like to see our pets get the same consideration.

I do not have skin kids, but I certainly understand that they are different than pets. I expect that if I decide to have skin children someday, they will be my number one priority. I have no business having them if that's not the case. But that doesn't mean my responsibility to my dog can go away. The only way I would give up my dog is if he was a SERIOUS threat to my skin children's lives. And I mean SERIOUS threat -- as in major aggression issues that can't be curbed after a great deal of effort to fix them. Just as your responsibility to a first child doesn't go away when you have a second.

Obviously I feel strongly about this, but if you look at my first post in this thread, I think I managed to keep my strong opinions contained -- it was after Mike came back saying that we need our heads examined that I no longer felt the need to hold back.

But sadly I'm sure Mike has not and will not be back to read any of this. But maybe someone else out there who is thinking of giving up a dog now or in the future will see this thread and think twice.

(Just in case there is any confusion -- I'm not trying to make a statement about unplanned pregnancies and/or giving children up for adoption. I'm trying to stay focused on the issue of dogs here. But just so there is no confusion, I am opposed to anyone putting themselves in the position of being responsible for any life -- human or animal -- without thoroughly thinking through the consequences and responsibilities involved.)

 

[boxmom]

People make mistakes

We are human and unfortunately we do. I think the point has been well made that it is wrong to give up on your dog. I totally agree that it is wrong. I would rather see someone come to this site to get the right answers and advice, even about something like this, than to be scared and do something stupid (i'm sure people in rescue organizations have sad stories about this). Maybe mike will be able to make some adjustments from the suggestions and be able to keep Shankley. Maybe he won't. If he can't I just hope he makes an honest committment to find Shankley a new "forever" home. I hope he checks with rescues on how to screen for someone right, and I hope he follows through and makes sure Shankley ends up happy.

 

[hugomom1]

easy now

I read a few of the posts and I must agree that Mike kindof got jumped on. I have to give the man kudos for caring enough about his dog to ask for help. A lot of people would've just tied the dog to a house in the backyard and been done with it. Or worse, dumping them at the pound or on some country road.