Help! Give me reasons not to breed! (long, sorry)
- Thread starter HeatherJS
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I can contribute a first hand horror story.
I was hanging out in show crowds, belonged to my local club, read every boxer list for YEARS before I even had a boxer. I wanted to show more than breed, but got a lovely bitch through a coownership with the understanding that we'd have one litter if her health tests panned out.
Well, two holters and other tests later (~500-600) she was bred and had an uneventful pregnancy (extra vet visits, of course). She delivered one pup and then stopped. A couple of hours went by, discussed things with the vet, finally brought her in. C-section. 9 puppies. She died.
So now I have 9 orphan puppies. (And 4 are white, so by ABC rules I can't even sell them!) And a $1200 vet bill for a dog that's not even coming home with us. Plus $ to do a necropsy to see why she died (undetermined -- her heart just slowed until they couldn't get her back). And cremation fee.
Now there's no time to mourn, because 9 puppies need to be fed every 3-4 hours, and it takes 2 hours to do it! I hadn't planned on a vacation -- after all, Mama Dog does most of the work for the first three weeks. I had that covered with my Mom staying and overseeing that portion -- I was going to work shorter hours and shorter weeks later when the pups were more active and demanding.
Well, all that went out the window. Suddenly I was taking a week off with no notice and building incubators at home ($$$). Aside from eating, we had to take the dam's place and clean them as well, stimulating them to go to the bathroom after every feeding (and burping, and cuddling). We had to keep them immaculate to avoid urine scald and infection. They were very picky about which nipple they wanted, and it varied from pup to pup and day to day, so there was lots of stressful effort to feed even one pup.
We did manage to find a foster dam to take 5 of the pups (I had the connections to do that and thank god for them!). She was 90 minutes away. So now we were down to 4 puppies.
I'd say we spent about $500 on milk replacer (even with the foster dam, so count on $1000-1200 without her). Of course it was pretty impossible to grieve - no time and no energy.
And did I mention there was a 4 day heat wave in the upper 90s and we couldn't turn the air conditioning on because of the puppies?
And our washing machine was doing 6 loads/day, and the drainage just wasn't up to it? Friends were bringing us meals and doing dog laundry for us as we sat in a stupor between feedings. And on Saturdays I drove 90 minutes to visit the other pups, stayed for a half hour, cuddled them, and drove 90 minutes back (leaving others to take care of the other pups)
At the three week point, it was time for weaning and the other puppies rejoined us (we never lost a single one, a major victory, actually -- I'd been told to expect to lose several). Then the hard physical labor began, with all the cleaning up. And we were still in mourning.
And then there were the puppy checkups, and microchipping and vaccinations and that was close to ~100/puppy when all was said and done. And did I mention that only 5 of the 9 were able to be sold? And that we were keeping two anyway, so really I only had "income" from 3?
Yes, breeding for fun and profit!
I was hanging out in show crowds, belonged to my local club, read every boxer list for YEARS before I even had a boxer. I wanted to show more than breed, but got a lovely bitch through a coownership with the understanding that we'd have one litter if her health tests panned out.
Well, two holters and other tests later (~500-600) she was bred and had an uneventful pregnancy (extra vet visits, of course). She delivered one pup and then stopped. A couple of hours went by, discussed things with the vet, finally brought her in. C-section. 9 puppies. She died.
So now I have 9 orphan puppies. (And 4 are white, so by ABC rules I can't even sell them!) And a $1200 vet bill for a dog that's not even coming home with us. Plus $ to do a necropsy to see why she died (undetermined -- her heart just slowed until they couldn't get her back). And cremation fee.
Now there's no time to mourn, because 9 puppies need to be fed every 3-4 hours, and it takes 2 hours to do it! I hadn't planned on a vacation -- after all, Mama Dog does most of the work for the first three weeks. I had that covered with my Mom staying and overseeing that portion -- I was going to work shorter hours and shorter weeks later when the pups were more active and demanding.
Well, all that went out the window. Suddenly I was taking a week off with no notice and building incubators at home ($$$). Aside from eating, we had to take the dam's place and clean them as well, stimulating them to go to the bathroom after every feeding (and burping, and cuddling). We had to keep them immaculate to avoid urine scald and infection. They were very picky about which nipple they wanted, and it varied from pup to pup and day to day, so there was lots of stressful effort to feed even one pup.
We did manage to find a foster dam to take 5 of the pups (I had the connections to do that and thank god for them!). She was 90 minutes away. So now we were down to 4 puppies.
I'd say we spent about $500 on milk replacer (even with the foster dam, so count on $1000-1200 without her). Of course it was pretty impossible to grieve - no time and no energy.
And did I mention there was a 4 day heat wave in the upper 90s and we couldn't turn the air conditioning on because of the puppies?
And our washing machine was doing 6 loads/day, and the drainage just wasn't up to it? Friends were bringing us meals and doing dog laundry for us as we sat in a stupor between feedings. And on Saturdays I drove 90 minutes to visit the other pups, stayed for a half hour, cuddled them, and drove 90 minutes back (leaving others to take care of the other pups)At the three week point, it was time for weaning and the other puppies rejoined us (we never lost a single one, a major victory, actually -- I'd been told to expect to lose several). Then the hard physical labor began, with all the cleaning up. And we were still in mourning.
And then there were the puppy checkups, and microchipping and vaccinations and that was close to ~100/puppy when all was said and done. And did I mention that only 5 of the 9 were able to be sold? And that we were keeping two anyway, so really I only had "income" from 3?
Yes, breeding for fun and profit!
How about these reasons to NOT breed.
1) You have no prior expirence breeding.
2) Its expensive.
3) Its none of their business when and if you will ever breed your dog.
4) You actually love the boxer breed and dont want to hurt it by backyard breeding.
Tell them if they want pups to go to a boxer rescue. You know what? Most of those people who are "depending" on you, the odds are they will get bored with the pup, or just tie it up in the back yard or wont even take care of it correclty.
Do the right thing.
Proph
1) You have no prior expirence breeding.
2) Its expensive.
3) Its none of their business when and if you will ever breed your dog.
4) You actually love the boxer breed and dont want to hurt it by backyard breeding.
Tell them if they want pups to go to a boxer rescue. You know what? Most of those people who are "depending" on you, the odds are they will get bored with the pup, or just tie it up in the back yard or wont even take care of it correclty.
Do the right thing.
Proph
Tricia77
Boxer Booster
Tell them to visit the local Humane Society - dog pound - rescue organiztions. Get the stats on how many dogs are euthansized DAILY!!!!!
They need a grip on reality - just as blunt as that..........
I have 3 beautiful boxers (2 with papers) - and they came from rescues. No reason to breed them as there are many more out there.
Tricia and a crew of disheartened boxers who wish all rescues wold find FOREVER homes!!
They need a grip on reality - just as blunt as that..........
I have 3 beautiful boxers (2 with papers) - and they came from rescues. No reason to breed them as there are many more out there.
Tricia and a crew of disheartened boxers who wish all rescues wold find FOREVER homes!!
rog1006
Completely Boxer Crazy
WoW...thank you for sharing your story with all of us. I'm so sorry for your loss and truly admire your courage, plodding through to save those little lives. How sad that you seemed to do everything right as far as knowledge and research along with health testing and things still turned for the worse...
Your post will help educate many...
Christine
Your post will help educate many...
Christine
kassa said:I can contribute a first hand horror story.
I was hanging out in show crowds, belonged to my local club, read every boxer list for YEARS before I even had a boxer. I wanted to show more than breed, but got a lovely bitch through a coownership with the understanding that we'd have one litter if her health tests panned out.
Well, two holters and other tests later (~500-600) she was bred and had an uneventful pregnancy (extra vet visits, of course). She delivered one pup and then stopped. A couple of hours went by, discussed things with the vet, finally brought her in. C-section. 9 puppies. She died.
So now I have 9 orphan puppies. (And 4 are white, so by ABC rules I can't even sell them!) And a $1200 vet bill for a dog that's not even coming home with us. Plus $ to do a necropsy to see why she died (undetermined -- her heart just slowed until they couldn't get her back). And cremation fee.
Now there's no time to mourn, because 9 puppies need to be fed every 3-4 hours, and it takes 2 hours to do it! I hadn't planned on a vacation -- after all, Mama Dog does most of the work for the first three weeks. I had that covered with my Mom staying and overseeing that portion -- I was going to work shorter hours and shorter weeks later when the pups were more active and demanding.
Well, all that went out the window. Suddenly I was taking a week off with no notice and building incubators at home ($$$). Aside from eating, we had to take the dam's place and clean them as well, stimulating them to go to the bathroom after every feeding (and burping, and cuddling). We had to keep them immaculate to avoid urine scald and infection. They were very picky about which nipple they wanted, and it varied from pup to pup and day to day, so there was lots of stressful effort to feed even one pup.
We did manage to find a foster dam to take 5 of the pups (I had the connections to do that and thank god for them!). She was 90 minutes away. So now we were down to 4 puppies.
I'd say we spent about $500 on milk replacer (even with the foster dam, so count on $1000-1200 without her). Of course it was pretty impossible to grieve - no time and no energy.
And did I mention there was a 4 day heat wave in the upper 90s and we couldn't turn the air conditioning on because of the puppies?
At the three week point, it was time for weaning and the other puppies rejoined us (we never lost a single one, a major victory, actually -- I'd been told to expect to lose several). Then the hard physical labor began, with all the cleaning up. And we were still in mourning.
And then there were the puppy checkups, and microchipping and vaccinations and that was close to ~100/puppy when all was said and done. And did I mention that only 5 of the 9 were able to be sold? And that we were keeping two anyway, so really I only had "income" from 3?
Yes, breeding for fun and profit!
hugomom1
Super Boxer
kpdangermouse said:
My Aunt's Schnauzer also had this happen. The poor 14 lb. dog had a 5lb. infectious pussy uterus. She was lucky, by the time the vet diagnoses this condition your baby only has about a 50% shot of pulling through. From what her vet has said, this is a lot more common than people realize in unaltered female dogs. Do you really want to play a crap shoot with your baby's life?
This is beside the fact that there are already too many dogs that are homeless. I volunteer with Animal rescue. There are plenty of Boxers out there that need homes, if your dog has puppies thats one more dog that no one will adopt. Tell her to check out petfinder.com
Just because she works with them does NOT make them a good pet owner.
Just to update everyone, Lilly is getting fixed on Friday!! I had originally scheduled it for two weeks ago, but I had just moved into a new house and she was adjusting to that. I didn't want a big move (we had lived with my parents and three siblings so she was NEVER alone) and a major surgery all in the same week. Plus, this weekend I have a three day weekend, so I will get to spend another day taking care of her. They mentioned something about a blood test they could do before the surgery to make sure she'd come back after they put her down. Anyone know anything about this? They said it was like $24 and they could tell if she'd handle the surgery okay. Can they really tell that by doing a blood test?
Just a few more bad breeder stories But I recently talked to a friend who greatly encouraged the breeding because it was "such a beautiful experience" and "made the mother a better dog." She said she loved doing it for her kids because it taught them so much. Her first litter was a cocker spaniel. She had cocker schnauzers because she was in heat and the dog that got to her first (by coming into their home, no less!) was a mini schnauzer. Then, her second cocker had the pups early and all seven died. A week later, she suddenly had one pup who was completely healthy. Vet couldn't even explain it. Her third litter was golden retriever pups. They did it about two years ago. The stud just died of cancer because they did absolutely no health testing. How are those BEAUTIFUL experiences?!
And, like I've started telling people, Lilly is literally like my child. I'm not going to pimp her out to have pups so that I can make money off of them. After all, would they whor* out their children and sell their kids to make a profit? Didn't think so.
Just a few more bad breeder stories
But I recently talked to a friend who greatly encouraged the breeding because it was "such a beautiful experience" and "made the mother a better dog." She said she loved doing it for her kids because it taught them so much. Her first litter was a cocker spaniel. She had cocker schnauzers because she was in heat and the dog that got to her first (by coming into their home, no less!) was a mini schnauzer. Then, her second cocker had the pups early and all seven died. A week later, she suddenly had one pup who was completely healthy. Vet couldn't even explain it. Her third litter was golden retriever pups. They did it about two years ago. The stud just died of cancer because they did absolutely no health testing. How are those BEAUTIFUL experiences?! And, like I've started telling people, Lilly is literally like my child. I'm not going to pimp her out to have pups so that I can make money off of them. After all, would they whor* out their children and sell their kids to make a profit? Didn't think so.
VTbxrFan
Boxer Insane
Well a blood test can't guarantee no complications, but it can identify conditions that could cause complications - it helps indicate that all major organs are functioning properly. I always have a blood work up done before anesthesia - I know it's not a guarantee, but it lowers the risks and gives me some peace of mind.
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