Akc Or Ckc

[Dallaschick]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you VTbxrFan!!! Very well said.

Originally posted by pcprovost
Then in one sentence you said your dog had papers but that it urkes you to hear people say that thier dogs do? Contridiction big time there.

Christie

No it is not a contradiction. Yes, my dog has a set of AKC registration papers but I never filled them out and filed them with the AKC so therefore my dog is not registered and I could care less. The reason it urkes those of us in rescue is the fact that some less informed people believe that having AKC papers on a dog gives them an automatic license to breed. When asked "and why is your dog not spayed or neutered?" and their response is "my dog is AKC registered", well whoopty doo- so what. Truth is, most byb dogs and puppy mill dogs have "papers" as well. Just like VTbxrFan said "I just wanted to breed 1 litter" is the most common excuse used by back yard breeders. "Papers" are exactly what they are....papers. Will not having papers make you love your baby any less?....of course not (I hope). There is so much information on this site to be learned so please come with an open mind and ears to what everyone has to say. WE ARE IN NO WAY TRYING TO ATTACK YOU!.....just trying to throw some education on the subject your way.

Here are some links that may be useful:
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/byb/
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/commercial/
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/top6/

 

[Chicagosarah]

Originally posted by pcprovost
Anyway the owners of the litter got Dad from either a shelter or boxer rescue I can't remember which. He looks like show quality very nice! They don't have papers on him but the do on Mom through AKC

Wouldnt be from a rescue as they spay and neuter to prevent overpoluation and careless breeding. Usually shelters sapy neuter too. I would have been alarmned wqhen they said they bred a rescue dog. That doesnt sound very responsible. They obviously didnt show him, do health testing,etc. He can look like a million nucks, but that isnt good enough to breed him.
And just as the akc website says....
AKC Registered and Quality

There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" and quality are one and the same. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog. Quality in the sense of "show quality" is determined by many factors including the dog's health, physical condition, ability to move and appearance. Breeders breeding show stock are trying to produce animals that closely resemble the description of perfection described in the breed standard. Many people breed their dogs with no concern for the qualitative demands of the breed standard. When this occurs repeatedly over several generations, the animals, while still pure-bred, can be of extremely low quality.

 

[VTbxrFan]

Re: Re: Akc Or Ckc

Originally posted by Chicagosarah
Wouldnt be from a rescue as they spay and neuter to prevent overpoluation and careless breeding. Usually shelters sapy neuter too. I would have been alarmned wqhen they said they bred a rescue dog. That doesnt sound very responsible.

Just as word of clarification, it is true that a REPUTABLE rescue group would have neutered the dog before he could be adopted, but there are individuals and groups out there who call themselves rescues but don't necessarily follow the practices that are common with the more reputable groups. In any case, I agree that breeding this particular dog was very irresponsible when nothing is known about his background.

 

[pcprovost]

"Breeding once" is a common practice of uninformed
breeders. And if the father came from a rescue or shelter, then clearly they have no health history on the father, so you very definitely took a risk, but as you said, that's your decision. (just as I took a risk in adopting a dog from rescue, but for me the risk is worth the benefit of giving him a home. I would not take the risk of an unhealthy dog if it meant putting money in the hands of the people who didn't bother to try preventing those problems.) I'm glad that you are committed to your pup no matter what, though. If more people would have that attitude, we'd have far fewer abandoned pets to deal with.

Ok I have no idea why yall are attacking me over asking what the difference between AKC and CKC, but at anyrate you just said it again IF THE DOG HAS NO PAPERS THEN THE HEALTH HISTORY CAN'T BE TRACED! read above in your post. That is exactly why I want my dog papered and why I was asking about the CKC because I only know about the AKC. It makes no sense to say you shouldn't breed a dog you nothing about. A dog without papers is a dog you will most definately know nothing about.

So in turn are you saying people shouldn't breed dogs at all? I see most of you have puppies so I can't understand why you would think that way. I am a responsible owner.

I love the breed and I brought my dog home to live with my family because the dog made me feel wonderful inside. The breed is definately different from other breeds. And I have had a Great Dane prior to this that was akc registered and she ended up dying from the same enzyme problem I spoke about above.

Had the vet caught it in time we could have cured her with meds that cost around 100 dollars a month. Better for me to have a sick dog because no matter what I will pay what ever the cost to make sure my dog stays healthy. I spent well over $3,000 dollars in vet bills for my Dane before she died and I'd do it again in a heart beat because I'd rather incure the costs than have the dog end up in the hands of someone who would not be able to afford the cost and time for the dog and let it suffer. I would rather the dog not be sick but that's what happens when you don't check health records and at the time I would have never bought another AKC registered dog without checking the health record and pedigree of the dogs parents.

But I did do it again this time I got a dog without papers. And If one day I do decide to breed her I would like to know the background of the father that was obviously rescued at a shelter, and obviously the people who might buy her puppies (if that ever happens and I doubt it) Would want to know about the parents history.

That is why I called akc today and asked about the dna test and the CKC, From what I was told CKC can cross trace to any other kennell club. So that is why I want papers on my dog.

How in the world you all got off on your soap box and begain attacking me I have no clue?????

But as you will see if my dog does get sick and that's what happens papers or not I will pay every dime I have to save that dog. That's the kind of person I am.

I have 2 other dogs that are mixed and I have bred them once before fixing them. I never regreted that and I think it's good for a dog to have at least one litter. All my puppies went to great homes and each person I still have contact with today. The dogs are used on farms here in Texas and used for herding cattle. Not one has had any health problems. As I know most mixed breeds don't have as many problems as the pure bred dogs.

I am sorry if offended anyone with my question and had I known I would get such a response I would have never asked such a simple question.


Christie

 

[GoCougs]

Originally posted by pcprovost
How in the world you all got off on your soap box and begain attacking me I have no clue?????

I don't think anyone is attacking you, Christie. I think you are being a bit over defensive. Backyard breeding is a touchy topic round these parts. You posted a question in a forum geared toward boxer fanciers, who's goal is to better the breed through responsible breeding and health testing. Backyard breeding is contrary to every facet of conformational showing. You kinda stepped into a lion's den.

Step back and take a breath. Most people at BW are here to help.

 

[vasha]

Originally posted by pcprovost
IF THE DOG HAS NO PAPERS THEN THE HEALTH HISTORY CAN'T BE TRACED!

That's exactly what VTBoxrFan is saying. Layla's SIRE did not have papers. Without that you are unable to trace his line to know what kind of temperment, possible hip dysplasia, cardiomyopathy, etc his lineage may have carried down and that is why we are so adamant on our positions.

If you don't know about his lineage, getting papers on Layla really doesn't do you much good because she's half of him and any faults that he has, she may have and may carry on down the line if she is bred.

Originally posted by pcprovost
So in turn are you saying people shouldn't breed dogs at all? I see most of you have puppies so I can't understand why you would think that way. I am a responsible owner.

Boxerworld has very strict rules against the discussion of backyard breeding, please read the links that dallaschick provided for you to learn more about backyard breeding.

Also, all of us on Boxerworld are responsible owners, but that doesn't mean that all of us are responsible breeders. There's a vast difference between the two. Again, please refer to the links that dallaschick provided.

To answer your question again, the CKC is the club that puppy millers and backyard breeders use to register their dogs. VTBoxrFan has given you some lengthy advice regarding that.

The reason that most of us are so adamant about the spay/neuter of our companion animals is because the majority of Boxerworld owners volunteer in rescue of some kind and we are aware of the number of loving dogs and cats that are put down every year because of the pet overpopulation crisis.

If you are a responsible breeder that knows the line that you are carrying on in your breeding program, that has had your bitch or sire judged in confirmation shows to ensure that they are the best of the best, have an animal that has completely passed all health testing before even THINKING about breeding, by doing interviews of all possible homes for your litters and are willing to take those puppies back into your home if they do not work out in their new homes, then yes, breed Layla. If you are unable to do all of those things, then you are not only doing Layla a disservice, but one to the entire breed as well.

vasha

 

[Sailorsmommy]

From my past experience with the CKC, don't waste your time, they are only in it for the money, they will register ANYTHING. I tried to get some information out of them about the breeder of a handicapped bulldog that I had and they wanted me to go through all of this yellow tape just to get my money. Basically I had no use for a registration from the CKC for a neutered, handicapped bulldog. In the end his breeders are still breeding genetically unsound dogs, Flash has since passed away (from genetic problems) and I never did get the info that might have helped him out.
If you are interested in Obedience or agility, the AKC offers a special type of registration for non AKC dogs so that they are able to compete in AKC competitions. Hope this helps some

 

[BrazilBoxer]

Speaking strictly to the DNA testing and nothing else, because I feel it has already been covered...

What exactly does the CKC offer to provide with their DNA test?

If they offer to tell you that she is 100% boxer through examining her DNA, then that doesn't tell you much about her past. However, it will mean they will let you register her. Her "papers" in this case wouldn't determine her health.

On the other hand, if they are telling you that they will be able to identify exactly what her lineage is, and what her sire's background is, then I think they are overstating their abilities. If they in fact do have access to other registries' (AKC or whoever) DNA records, you should know that most dogs don't have their DNA on file. From what I understand, it's rather uncommon. So if you did get her DNA tested, the odds of finding out her lineage is very slim. And if you did find out her lineage, you would then have to track down all the parties involved and get them to tell you all the health issues that have occurred *other than the ones you know about* because the registries do not keep a health history of each registered dog. Her papers wouldn't determine her health, your detective work would!

You seem to really care about Layla and want the best for her (and all of your other dogs). If that means looking into her history, go for it. It's fun to find out about your dog's genealogy! I know I liked looking up the kennels on Lady's pedigree. But don't let any piece of paper trick you into ignoring what you already know, that maybe Layla shouldn't have puppies. And remember that a responsible breeder breeds for health AND conformation to the breed standard, no easy task.

Good luck, Mariah.

 

[Sabrina Jay]

For one thing, your putting too much empasise on papers.....that they mean quality, when they don't.

Most shelters (in many states it is a state law) that either: 1) the animals be spayed/neutered prior to adoption or a contract be signed to have it done within a certain amount of time 2) Reputable rescue groups spay/neuter prior to placement.

AKC requires that any dog that is turned over to a shelter or rescue group, AKC papers be destroyed and not allowed to go with the dog.

Others have already stated the differences between AKC & CKC. I won't go into that only to say the Contential Kennel Club is a registery for BYB's & commercial breeders (puppymills). No, they can not trace your dogs parentage with DNA, unless the prior dogs in the pedigree were DNA registered also. (this still will not tell you anything about the health of the dogs) Don't waste your money. Let's assume you end up registering your pup with CKC and then in turn, breed her and then register her puppies with CKC....anyone who knows anything about the different types of registeries will know truly the type of breeder you would be considered.

Even if you end up finding out the actual pedigree (what dogs are in the lineage) you still will not know the over-all conformation, health, & temperment issues in those particular dogs. You would (& could be) breeding from unhealthy lines. Many states now days have puppy lemon laws, and are starting to hold the breeders/sellers responsible for defective dogs. (as it should be)

Its also a myth that mixed breeds are more healthy. (there has been previous topics discussed on this....use the search key in the forums area). I have read (directly) from the vet sites articles on this also, but don't think I have those bookmarked. (If I find the articles, I will PM you the links).

 

[VTbxrFan]

Christie, I'm not at all attacking you and I apologize if you felt that I was. I was trying to explain to you that getting papers on your dog after the fact will not help you at all. No registration body can give you any information on the background of your puppy unless they also have records on your puppy's ancestors, which they don't since the sire is unregistered and has a completely unknown history. Yes you can pay your money to CKC and they will send you registration papers...and perhaps they will be able to trace a little bit of history of your pup's mother (if her parents and grandparents were also registered), but they won't be able to tell you anything about the father. Even if the breeder you got your pup from goes ahead and registers the father now, they can't trace anything on him because they don't know anything about his parents. Registries only have value if they are consistently used through several generations without any gaps.

If you will look back to the beginning, I did give you information on both AKC and CKC, as you requested, and I gave you the websites for both places. I then tried to provide more information because it was seemed to me that you didn't fully understand the process. I didn't want you to spend money believing that you were going to get more out if than you would. You have a dog without papers. Your pup's father doesn't have papers. As are result, there is absolutely no way that getting papers for your puppy will give you her health history. You will simply be giving money to an organization that exists primarily to make money. At this point, there is absolutely no way for you to get a full history on your puppy. Your dog has no papers. Your dog's father has no papers. There is nothing you can do now to get a history on them. If you decide to pay to register your pups, that is certainly your decision, but please understand that you won't get anything more than a piece of paper. You will not be able to trace her health history

I never once said that you are an irresponsible owner. I have no reason to believe that you are. But I did say, and stand by my statement, that the breeders from which you got your puppy are irresponsible. They bred a dog from a shelter or rescue with absolutely no information on his background. That is irresponsible. And it would be irresponsible for you to breed your puppy for the same reason - her history is unknown.

Let me try to say as simply as I can that I have no problem or issue with you wanting to register your puppy. If you want to do that, go ahead and send in your $10. I just want to make sure you understand that doing that will not give you a full health history on your puppy, and it will not make it ok for you to then breed your puppy down the road. You have the puppy that you have. There is nothing you can change about her parentage or any genetic predisposition she might have to illness. What you can do is provide the best love and care for her possible, enjoy her as part of your family, and have her spayed so that you won't become an irresponsible breeder contributing to the problem of unwanted pets. Plus spaying your girl has great health benefits for her, such as significantly reducing her chance of getting certain cancers. Make sure she gets good, nutritious food and appropriate health care to help prevent any future health problems, and have fun with her! Boxers are great dogs!