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Akc Or Ckc

Discussion in 'Showing - questions and answers' started by pcprovost, Mar 16, 2004.

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  1. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    Not sure if I am in the right place but We got our 11 week old puppy a few weeks ago. Dad is beautiful, Lalya our puppie looks just like him. Anyway the owners of the litter got Dad from either a shelter or boxer rescue I can't remember which. He looks like show quality very nice! They don't have papers on him but the do on Mom through AKC
    I called CKC and they told me if the owners register Dad through CKC that It would make it easier to register my puppy. If they do not register then I have to wait until Layla is 6 months old and submit pictures and witness statements as to her being a full bread and if I could get a copy of moms pedigree that would be good also.

    My question is how is the CKC different from AKC? I noticed they are cheaper and have things such as DNA testing for only 75 dollars that may be able to trace background and pedigree and they also have micro chip real cheap, as well as registering the dog for 10 dollars.

    any info on this would really help.


    Christie
     
  2. ssleighter

    ssleighter Completely Boxer Crazy

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    My first question has to be why would you need to go through all the trouble for registration when it really doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are going to show or breed your girl?

    Since most boxer rescues that I know of neuter all their dogs before adoption, I would assume that your girls Dad came from a shelter so tracing heritage would be difficult at best, most likely impossible.

    If you're planning on breeding your boxer, please do a search on breeding and read all the posts you can find on the subject. Breeding boxers is not taken lightly here at BW and the reading will be very imformative for you.

    Sharon, Mom to Hammer, Ginger & Booker :D
     
  3. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    Well I can't say if I would like to show her or not. I may in the future. My question is what is the difference between CKC and AKC does anyone know?

    My puppy is only 11 weeks old. Breeding if at all is a long long ways away. And if in fact if that becomes an issue or I feel like I want to breed her then I will address that issue when it arises.


    The only trouble in getting her papered is a few photo's vet statements and 10 dollars. Hardly any trouble at all.


    Again if anyone Knows the difference between the AKC and CKC I would appriciate comments. I'm not sure about this Club. They may run things innapropriately? I really don't have a clue that is why I am asking.

    Christie
     
  4. vasha

    vasha Boxer Pal

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    The CKC (Continental, not Canadian Kennel Club), from my understanding, is the club that papers puppy mills and backyard breeders.

    Because Layla's sire was not AKC registered, I'm not sure if Layla is eligible for AKC registration.

    btw - Welcome to BW from a fellow Dallasite!

    vasha frogicon
     
  5. DianeD

    DianeD Boxer Booster

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    Yes, CKC (Continental) is used by BYBs and puppy mills to register their dogs. Is there a reason why you want to register your pup with the CKC?
     
  6. Dallaschick

    Dallaschick Boxer Pal

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    As others have stated, CKC is used mostly by puppy millers because they don't have the somewhat higher standards/rules that the AKC has. When it comes down to it, AKC and CKC are just registering bodies. That's it. Unless you are showing in conformation there is really no important reason to even register. Saying "my dog is registered" really doesn't mean squat. That statement urkes us rescue folks more than anything. Please don't take that the wrong way, just simply stating a fact. My boxer girl has papers and they are shoved in a drawer somewhere in my house and were never sent into AKC. My girl is spayed so being registered serves no purpose. Without the fathers lineage it would be very hard to get registered with the AKC and therefor into showing with this particular puppy. Showing in conformation takes a lot of time and money and a good mentor. Your puppy would need to be evaluated by a professional to see if he/she is even true to standard which you can read about here on BW as well, then be at least 2 years old before all the proper health testing (heart, hips, thyroid, etc..) can be done and cleared for breeding. I would urge you to use the little search button at the top and research the many advantages of spay/neuter to help your new baby live a long and healthy life. Enjoy your new boxer puppy!
     
  7. VTbxrFan

    VTbxrFan Boxer Insane

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    I would encourage you to read through the websites of both if you really want all the details (akc.org, continentalkennelclub.com). A few differences are that it seems to be easier to register with CKC (which is good or bad depending on your persective). CKC does not sponsor conformation shows. CKC recognizes a lot more breeds (again, this is good or bad depending on your perspective) including development of hybrids.

    In the world of dog showing and breeding (at least responsible breeding), AKC is the more reputable registration organization.

    From what I can tell off of the website, AKC registration has to be initiated by the litter owner, so that's probably not even an option for you.

    Before your pay for a pedigree or anything like that, just keep in mind that they can't tell you much if your pups ancestors aren't registered...so you might be paying money for nothing...also note that if you are interested in getting a pedigree to look for "champion bloodlines", CKC does not have "champions" since it does not have conformation shows. Also consider what you hope to gain by the $75 DNA testing...that's really just a way for CKC to make some money.

    Whether one is better than the other depends on your perspective and what you are trying to get out of it. If easy registration is a priority, CKC is better...and that's why it's popular with puppy millers and BYBs. From my perspective, AKC is better...but my own feeling is that it also has it's share of flaws.
     
  8. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    ok... Well First off I can't see why anyone would get offended over someone saying thier dog is papered that is just stupid to me.

    Most breeders have to be very careful when breeding due to the large amount of diseases that can happen in boxers. I would think knowing this would make it all the more worth while to have papers on you Boxer.

    Then in one sentence you said your dog had papers but that it urkes you to hear people say that thier dogs do? Contridiction big time there.

    I think most dogs end up in shelters because of that very cause. Not having papers and people runing puppy mills they end up with dogs who are sick and the owners just drop them off somewhere. Had they gotten a dog from a breeder who breed carefully that wouldn't have happened.

    My vet said they had 4 cases this year with 4 different boxers that came in and had that digestive problem where the dogs didn't have enzymes to process thier food. Two of these dogs came from people who had papers on the dog and got them from a breeder without checking health and background of the parents puppy.

    Now in my case Mom had papers and the owners wanted to breed the mom once before fixing her. I know the owners and take a chance in buying a dog who could have potential health problems. But that's my choice and should anything ever arise I will be responsible for the vet bills. I will not drop my dog off at your door step and God forbid if I ever decide to breed her I would like to know the parents background for that reason alone.

    I think anyone who obtains a dog without papers may in for years of heart ache and loads of medical bills.

    Check out your owners and the dogs before you buy and make sure they have papers.


    Christie
     
  9. VTbxrFan

    VTbxrFan Boxer Insane

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    Absolutely there is a lot of care involved with responsible breeding to avoid disease, but papers alone don't provide any assurance that this care was taken.
    Your argument here doesn't really work for me because many dogs from puppy mills do have papers. Also working in rescue, which takes in a lot of dogs originally dumped in shelters, I can tell you that's not true. The vast majority of dogs we get are healthy. People dump them because for one reason or another, it's no longer convenient for them to keep them, and the owners are lazy and don't want to be inconvenienced to provide basic care. It's rarely a health issue that causes the lack of commitment. (Although if the lack of commitment is there for a long time before they finally give up the dog, then neglect can certainly cause the health problems...but it's not the health problem causing the neglect)
    Well that supports my point that papers don't mean anything in terms of health.
    "Breeding once" is a common practice of uninformed
    breeders. And if the father came from a rescue or shelter, then clearly they have no health history on the father, so you very definitely took a risk, but as you said, that's your decision. (just as I took a risk in adopting a dog from rescue, but for me the risk is worth the benefit of giving him a home. I would not take the risk of an unhealthy dog if it meant putting money in the hands of the people who didn't bother to try preventing those problems.) I'm glad that you are committed to your pup no matter what, though. If more people would have that attitude, we'd have far fewer abandoned pets to deal with.
    Anyone who obtains a dog without knowing the health history for several generations riks heart ache and medical bills. (Well, to be honest, anyone getting a dog does because not everything is genetic, and even well-bred dogs can develop illnesses or injury). But you do realize that you didn't follow your own advice here because in fact you got a dog without papers. I absolutely agree with your comment to check out the owners and the dogs, but there is a lot more to consider than whether or not they have papers.

    The way I see it, responsible breeders will typically register their pups because they are working on improving the breed and continuing their lines (although limited registrations will be very, very common), but simply having registration papers doesn't make the pup any less likely to have health problems because there is no health testing necessary to get the papers in the first place. Many puppymillers and back yard breeders get papers because they can make more money of of "registered" puppies, but that doesn't mean they are doing anything responsibly. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with wanting to have a dog with papers...I just think it's important to understand that simply having papers does not provide any indication of responsible breeding. It just means someone paid the fee and took the time to go through the registration process.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2004
  10. DianeD

    DianeD Boxer Booster

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    Very well said VTbxrFan!!!appicon
     
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