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Akc Or Ckc

Discussion in 'Showing - questions and answers' started by pcprovost, Mar 16, 2004.

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  1. Vela

    Vela Boxer Insane

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    Very well put VTBoxerfan.

    Getting your pup papers now won't change the fact that you bought a puppy from unknown lines with unknown health problem potential. You stated many times about getting a puppy from a reputable breeder who did proper testing but you didn't do that. You can't get any information about that now and getting her CKC papers won't change anything at all about her health history of make her breeder more responsible...which seems to be something you are very interested in by your statements. I agree with you about getting a puppy from such a source. It's your best chance at a healthy puppy to do so. You getting her CKC papers won't make it any better to breed her and won't prove anything except you have a set of worhtless papers sitting on the counter.

    Not saying not to register her if that's what you really want to do go for it. It still doesn't make it responsible to breed her without knowing her background even if you get her papers.

    I don't think anyone was attacking you at all. Please don't take things so personally. It is hard to convey intent when reading typed words on a screen. I think the only thing that people were trying to explain is thet getting CKC papers isn't going to mkae it okay to breed her. And breeding once before spayig really dones't help the dog in any way. Good luck with your puppy I'm sure she's a sweetie.
     
  2. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    I really did find it odd that you all assumed I wanted papers just for breeding. I hadn't even thought about that until someone mentioned it. When I called AKC and found out that I could not get papers on my Layla I was upset because I would not be able to show her or put her into any kind of the events that they have. I thought by getting papers a CKC ( which now sounds like a really bad idea) that I would be able to place her in CKC's event's and from reading about the only even they have is hunting and weight pulling for pit bulls.

    I had no idea the two were that different that is why I asked. I think that is a bad idea to assume someone wants to breed just for asking about the two different groups of Kennels.

    I don't like people assuming things about me. Making judgments before you know my real reason. Had I wanted to know about breeding my original post would have had the subject breeding. But it didn't it said ACK CKC and the difference.


    I am really disappointed because yes I do want to do something with her besides just be a house dog. She is a beautiful dog and she may or may not have it in her to show or otherwise but I wanted the information so I could decide. She is a very smart dog already and I have always done well with training dogs.

    I can see your point if I ever decided to breed her about breeding her without knowing pops background and that is another reason I brought up the DNA test. Somehow or another It was my understanding that if Dad's parents were registered then it was a possibility that they were also DNA tested and he may have an excellent background and in that case I may be able to obtain AKC papers on her and eventually show her. I know it's a shot in the dark but it was money I was willing to pay to find out.

    I really do want to know the fathers background. It is real important to me. The owners are supposed to be getting me the pedigree for the mom so I will at least have that.

    I had no clue about CKC and how sloppy they were when it came to registration. I saw all the pit bulls that were pulling loads and it really bothered me. I don't think dogs that are 70 to 80 pounds should be pulling around 1,300 pounds. Sounds kind of cruel to me.

    I used to have a friend that raised pits and he used to do this. Those dogs were mean and very unpredictable.

    The only thing I saw on the CKC web sight that I thought was neat was how they allow two full- blooded breeds to be brought together to make another new breed with papers. Had they not done that with the boxer we wouldn't have a boxer today.

    Maybe in the future it will help to weed out genetic mutations and health problems.


    Before I bought my new house and after my Great Dane we got a Rottie from a breeder who couldn't get rid of him. He was a friend of the family. This dog had been through obedience training and had 11 gold medal winners on both sides mom and dad championship bloodline. He saved our lives once by chasing a robber out of the house and was a very obedient, kind, beautiful dog. I took him down to Jamars in Rockwall, TX and they offered me a ton of money to stud him out to them. They ran a huge Rottie Kennel. I never did and they always told me I should have shown him.

    When I moved to the new house I went to 7 different insurance companies that would not insure my house with the Rottie so I ended up (Giving not selling) this dog that was worth thousands of dollars to a friend of mine who lived out in Quinlan, TX on a farm. I visited the dog for over a year until one day the guy told me I couldn't come out because the dog wouldn't recognize me and he might bite me.

    Anyway my point is I really wanted to show my Rottie and he had full potential in obedience and in working. And I never got the chance to.

    I knew when I got Layla that only Mom had papers but there might be a small chance I could show her if she was of quality. So now I am really disappointed that I can't. I think she's a special dog and should be recognized for that just like my Rottie.


    So really I am sorry if I sounded as if I had other intentions and I have no clue about the BYB, I don't even know what this is and I am not even interested in it, but you can bet if I ever decide to breed her (And that's a really big IF) I will come here and find out if I should and how and why it should all be done.

    But please in the future don't offer advice based on your assumptions that I wanted papers solely for breeding because that isn’t the case at all. I stated above why.

    I thank everyone that gave me information about the CKC and you are right it does sound like the perfect way for some idiot group of folks to breed bad dogs, and really I don't want to give one dime to support that kind of business. I know it happens in the AKC as well but as I understand it the breeder’s papers can be taken away if the owners sell bad puppies or sick ones. So that to me is a great thing.


    Don't anyone worry Layla is 12 weeks old and before I do anything with her I would most definitely consult with those of you on the board who seem to know a lot more than I do.


    Thanks again sorry if seemed offensive but again I hate people assuming things about me.


    Christie
    :D
     
  3. Sailorsmommy

    Sailorsmommy Boxer Buddy

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    You can also get her manners and basic commands down and take a Canine Good Citizens test. You can learn more at http://akc.org/love/cgc/program.cfm about it. Your dog doens't have to be registered with the AKC for this certificate. That gives them a certificate of good manners with people outside the family. Many boxers are also therapy dogs. These dogs are very well mannered, obedient and go to nursing homes and childrens hospitals to visit and bring happiness to the residents and patients in these places. There are lots of things you can do with your baby, you just have to investigate:) Good luck with Layla!
     
  4. harley03

    harley03 Completely Boxer Crazy

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    Christie,
    it's true that you can not show your dog in conformation, BUT you can obtain an ILP # from the AKC to compete in obedience and agility. I believe someone mentioned that in an above post.
    I also purchased my dog from an irresponsible breeder smashicon without knowing any better. We are now starting in obedience and trying to obtain a PEN # (it's called a PEN # by the CKC "Canadian Kennel Club" not "contenintal kennel club").
    Our boy is neutered (wanted to be a responsible pet owner) and he is happy and loves to work.

    I believe your pet must be spayed/neutered before you can obtain the number, however. So you do have a chance to compete :D . It really is fun.
     
  5. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    That is great! I knew there was a Canadian club and I guess I assumed CKC was it until I did the search and it said contenintal kennel club. Are these shows in America or Canada only?

    My daughter is Canadian she's goes there often but I don't

    about fixing the dog. My husband suggested we do this with layla right off the bat but I was real scared to do it because of all the reactions I hear about with anestisia. Also we fixed our female after she gave birth to a litter of puppies and was in heat again and she has never been the same since. I had to watch her around the kids a lot and she has taken to being really agressive towards some of our friends that have always come over.

    Is this because of being fixed? Or did she just grow up and turn rude?

    When is the best time to fix the dog? Our female was about 1 year old when she was fixed. She did real well other than being mean now.


    Any info yall can give me on events at AKC that my dog could enter would be wonderful!!!!!

    Thank you so much I appriciate that. I'm sorry about all the posting just to get to that one part but it was worth it.

    I am soooo happy and glad I don't need to waste money on papers if I truely do not need them!


    Christie
     
  6. Vela

    Vela Boxer Insane

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    The ILP # is a great way to go for you to still do some fun things with your pup. You don't have to show her in conformation to have fun with her. I know it costs some money but it would sure be worth it if that's something you really want to do. It would be base don her other skill rather than on her looksthough but that doesn't really matter so much if you can have a great time. Check the AKC website and I'm sure you can find info on how to obtan an ILP#.

    I honestly doubt that the spaying had anything to do with your prevous dogs behavior changing for the worse. I bought an intact 2 1/2 years old female who had been bred once and when i got her i spayed her and she hasn't changed a bit. It may just be due to her personality in general or perhaps something happened that changed her outlook on things but i really don't think it was the spaying. It's best to usually spay before the first heat, it cuts way down on the health risks to the dog. between 6-11 months is optimum providing you can get her in before her first heat. It doesn't change the way they mature to do it earlier.

    With the anesthesia, the only real major problem with that an Boxers as opposed to other breeds is if the use ACE (acepromazine) as part of the preanesthetic to calm her down. Just request that your vet not use ACE or find one who will agree to that. Do a search for ACE and it'll give you some great information on the hows and whys of not using it.

    I think there was just a lot of confusion on both sides. Like I said earlier it is often hard to understand waht someone is saying or how they mean it when all you see are words on the screen without hearing voices or being able to ask a queston to understand something that is confusing. In some parts it did seem like you were interested inthe breeding aspect just based on some comments so I think people were just tying to be helpful in that regard.

    In any event, good luck with your girl. She'll probably do great in agility or obedience!
     
  7. Roxydog

    Roxydog Super Boxer

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    Getting your dog an AKC ILP # is a GREAT way to involve yourself and your dog in AKC sanctioned events. As well as my boxer I have a pit bull boy named Brutus. I took Brutus from a person who was not properly caring for him and was happy to just get rid of him. Since Brutus was already fixed, I just needed to get a statement from my vet saying that he was fixed and send in a photo with that statement to the AKC to obtain Brutus' ILP #. You just need proof that your dog has been fixed and a photo. Thats all you need it's really simple! Brutus and I are training now for obedience competitions and he simply loves it, and I love to keep the big guy busy. It's great for both of us. Another event that you can compete with your pup later in life would be agility. My boxer has begun some light agility training. She's no superstar (yet ;) hahaha) but maybe the two of us will be in a couple competitions some day. Look into that ILP # if you are interested in getting your pup involved. Besides, my personal oppinion in the matter, is that the events you can compete in with an ILP # are more fun and less stressful than actually showing in conformation. Of course thats just personal oppinion. :)
     
  8. VTbxrFan

    VTbxrFan Boxer Insane

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    Here's the link to ILP info on AKC's website
    http://www.akc.org/registration/ilpex.cfm

    From that link, you can get to information on the types of events that dogs can participate in. I think there will be some great options for you even though you have to rule out conformation. You might also want to check out this link http://www.agilityboxer.com/ for some information on boxers & agility.

    As far as spaying, 6 months is a typical age. It's best to do it before the first heat, and if you wait much longer than 6 months, you start to run the risk that she'd go into heat. (It can vary a lot, but some bitches do come into heat well before their first birthday.) I know surgery is always scary, but there are also a lot of health benefits to spaying, like a huge reduction in the chance of mammary (breast) cancer, no phantom pregnancy after being in heat, no possibility of pregnancy complications (if she's left intact, accidents can happen and she could end up pregnant despite your efforst to avoid that), plus others, so to me, the benefits outweigh the risks unless the dog has a health condition that makes surgery risky. Just be sure to have your vet do a full blood work-up before the surgery to rule out any problems, and remind him not to use ACE as mentioned above.

    Like Vela, I doubt that the spaying had anything to do with the behavior change in your other dog. Working in rescue, I've dealt with dogs that have spayed at all different ages and have not seen any problems like that related to spaying. If you haven't already, you might want to consult with a behaviorist to try to figure out her change in behavior. There usually is a reason when dogs personalities change like that - it's not just part of them growing up. It could be a medical issue, so it might be a good idea to discuss her change in behavior with your vet if you haven't done that yet. Like people, dogs can be very grouchy if they don't feel well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2004
  9. pcprovost

    pcprovost Boxer Pal

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    Thanks for all the info! I most definately would be interested in the obedience. As long as there is something that I can do for her then I don't mind at all that she will not be able to be shown. I think she would do better in agility and obedience anyway and it would be more fun! I wasn't aware that I could do any of those things without papers and after reading everything It does sound like we will have her fixed at 6 months or before. It is scary though she is my baby I would be devisated if it changed her personality one bit. I love her just the way she is.

    Thanks again for all the info. I don't know how I came across that I was interested in breeding. I have thought about it but not enough to sit down and even make a decision, it has just been a passing thought and nothing more.

    When you put it like you do you all are right about pet population ect... I wonder why anyone would breed with all the poor dogs left behind who can't find homes, And I had seriously thought about getting my boxer from a rescue and even checked out the local animal shelter but I wanted a puppy and no one in my area had one. I was kind of afraid of getting a very medically needy dog. I see a lot of those on the boxer rescue sight and I have even donated money to some of them to help pay for rescued boxers medical needs.

    If I was ever serious about breeding her you guy would have changed my mind no doubt. I don't want to add to over population dog world and I can assure you that my reasoning for the papers were not because I wanted to breed her. That was the furthest thing from my mind. I just wanted to either show her or enter her in the AKC events and because I thought I would be able to obtain Dads records for peace of mind.


    I have her now and I really don't care now that I know I can be active with her in events and I will most definately check out those links!!!! I am soo excited I can't wait until she gets old enough to where we can take her!


    Sorry again for any confusion or if I seemed rude.

    Christie
     
  10. Faughtey

    Faughtey Banned

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    Christie if you want to see a dog show with plenty of obedience there is a good one this weekend in Fort Worth.
    here
     
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