a test for you!

[Bar B]

For all those that already are familiar with myself, you know the answer to this question already.

HOWEVER, for those that look to buy puppies (from any breeder) I hope you will learn a lesson here.

Question is:
In my photo gallery, can you tell me which one(s) just failed the cardiac testing that a board certified cardiologist tested yesterday????

Just because a dog is walking does not mean that it is healthy!!! I know there are so called breeders that lurk on the boards to educate themselves to look good when it comes time to sale puppies. ALWAYS, ask for health certifications or you just may get ripped off!!!

My vet has yet to detect a problem!

 

[BeckyNC]

Hi Barb!

Which one of your "kids" failed the cardiac test? What was detected? How sad. I hope he/she will be OK.

What provoked you do have the test run?

I definitely agree that a regular vet probably isn't trained to detect much more than a murmur. When I first had the vet listen to Tae's heart the report was "sounds good," but that doesn't mean so much I guess.

Becky

 

[Bar B]

Hi Barb!

What provoked you do have the test run?

When I first had the vet listen to Tae's heart the report was "sounds good," but that doesn't mean so much I guess.

Becky

Years ago, I had a full cardiac workup done on one of my girls for breeding purposes. A chest x-ray was taken, alone with performing an EKG, and then an ultrasound was done. The vets findings were: Normal chest x-ray, normal EKG, valve defect on ultrasound of heart with a grade 3 murmur.

Dummy me (not knowing of testing at the time had already produced a litter by her of which I had 3 of her sons still with me. All of the boys were listened to and at the time the vet stated she could here nothing on my whites but Max had a very mild murmur and had graded him as a 1.

Just because I know the findings of a vet can be different from the findings of a cardiologist, I saw that the upcoming show in Concord, NC was having a cardiac clinic. I filled out the paper work and sent it in in advance to have them tested by a board certified cardiologist just to see if that vet was right. The cardiologist gave the exact same findings without me saying a word of my previous testing. I now know which vet in my area is qualified to listen to hearts as well as read an ultrasound.

As far as the other pooch (you met her). She was the one that was evaluated at the club meet. Her result was a grade 4. It had already been decided that I was going to spay her because of her temperment but I just wanted to see if she would have passed the test. Now I have been told that before I do her spay, Ineed to have an echo and a doppler done on her prior to surgery. If her condition is severe, it may be that I need not put her under anesthesia due to the fact that she may not survive it.

You would never know it by looking at the 3 when they run a play. Its only when a dog collapses to sudden death that they wonder what happened!

As for what your vet has stated to you about "Sounds good". My now ex-vet says that to me all the time....even with my moderate to LOUD heart murmur grade 4 girl.

 

[BeckyNC]

Wow. Interesting that the cardiologist duplicated the results of a previous evaluation. I also guess it was good you had Paige evaluated before proceeding with the anesthesia and spay. I hope everything turns out well, whether you spay her or decide to forgo the surgery. I suppose sometimes it's more risky to spay than not. Keep me posted on the outcome of the echo, etc.

Becky

 

[Angie K]

I just wanted to tell you my little girl's story. Bar B your Paige is beautiful. I see her ears are done. Well my Marine (pronouned like Karen) was 12wks old when she had her ears done. Our vet said her murmer was just a 1 probably a puppy murmer and we would watch it. All was going well with ears taping etc. We took Marine in to be spayed and got a phone call 2hours later from the vet saying he couldn't spay her because her Heart Murmer had gotten alot worse. He had us come in and talk to him when we picked her up and he explained the ekg results and even made an appt. with a cardiologist for us to do the echo and doppler. We went and did that and the results were not good. She has Sub Aortic Stenosis w/ a grade 5.5 Murmer. The cardiologist offered to do the spay at his office because he has equip. to revive in case something should go wrong. His office is 1.5 hrs away. We decided after talking to our vet and cardiologist to not do a spay and let her live out her life as happy and normal as possible. She is now 2yrs 4months old and still acts like a pup. She does faint once in a while (1 every month or so) when she does a boxer burn around the yard but she usually knows when to take it easy. The cardiologist gave her approx. 4yrs but he said he's seen longer when the dog is in a good situation and happy. I know she is a spoiled queen and loved more than she'll ever know by me, husband and 2 sons. I hope your Paige does as well as our Marine.

 

[Bar B]

Thanks AngieK for telling your story. My biggest fear right now is: Will she possibly go into cardiac arrest while being examined??? Paige gets really stressed when out of her familiar surroundings. Even though she has always done well when being handled by my vets, she has never been left alone with them. I can only imagine how terrified she would become if a lot of commotion was going on around her and me not being there for her. I hope the examining physician will allow me to be present once the appointment has been made.

Paige has never shown any signs of heart problems. In fact she is one of my most aggressive as far as playing, running, and just all around drive. She would have made an excellent agility. Her speed is soooo fast, her energy never seems to stop, she is the instigator of the crew, a leader and a co-alpha of the pack.

And to be told she is a grade 4 is just (the best way I can describe it) like pulling the rug out from under me.

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

I am so sorry to hear that :(
That is one of the lessons for testing both issues of the heart. Echo for SAS/AS and Holter for BCM. Bad news if something is found out. But as a friend said, they will have it wether you test or not. At least with testing you can now be aware of the problem and help give her true quality of life.

Hugs to your girl

 

[kassa]

My biggest fear right now is: Will she possibly go into cardiac arrest while being examined???​

If she does, she couldn't possibly be in a better place to get the best chance of survival.

There's no real reason you can't be present for a Doppler echo, unless the room is very small or something. The dog simply is placed on its side (usually with a vet tech draped across holding it down) as the vet does the ultrasound (think of the ultrasounds pregnant women get -- same jelly and little mouse kind of object passed over the body). Usually if the owner is present they stand by the head, calming the dog and perhaps holding its muzzle shut and soothing it. (Panting can interfere with the readings) It's possible they'll want to muzzle the dog, and I suppose it's possible that you might have a dog who's more cooperative when you're gone than when you're present, in which case it's best to step outside.

Paige has never shown any signs of heart problems. In fact she is one of my most aggressive as far as playing, running, and just all around drive. She would have made an excellent agility. Her speed is soooo fast, her energy never seems to stop, she is the instigator of the crew, a leader and a co-alpha of the pack.​

She sounds like a great girl -- to me, living at full speed is the best we can ask for from our boxers. Sometimes buying a few extra months by cooping the dog up isn't worth it.

 

[Angie K]

Bar B: When we took Marine for her doppler etc. they had her laying on her side and both myself and husband were holding her down and one tech while the Dr. did the testing. They thought she was going to be awful because of how excited she gets when she meets new people. She was all over the vet and techs kissing etc. But to our surprise once she layed down and we pet her she calmed right down and layed still. They had the lights dim and it was quiet in the room so that helps.
Paige sounds exactly like my Marine. We have a rescue male "Caspian" who is almost 3yrs old. She is by far the one who wants to play all the time and she goes crazy running around the back yard sometimes. When we rescued we looked for a laid back kind of guy just for that reason, thinking it would calm her down some. Well so much for that she is still a wild woman and the alpha.
The one thing that stays with me is something the Cardiologist said to us. He said usually the first thing people ask is "how long should we crate to restrict activity?" His response to those people is the same thing he told us:
He feels you should only restrict what you control. Like Playing fetch, long walks, runs etc. He said she is fine to have small 10/15 min play times outside with us etc. But, He feels you should not restrict her playing in the house on her own or running around the yard after she goes to the bathroom. He feels it is much better for the dog to live a happy full life and that it may even extend the time we have with them. So we take one day at a time and enjoy all the time we have with her by spoiling her and loving her the most we can.