Vet thinks puppy should be put down!! Help!!!

[lhsdavis]

My vet was the first to tell me he couldnt help me with behavioral issues when I was having problems with a rescue. He helped with some issues he had with dogs of his personally, but he just recommended I get on the internet and look for pet behaviorist and trainers who could help me out. But I agree with everyone else that you cant determine how a dog will be when he is an adult at that age. I have had 2 (from babies) and rescued 3 (adults)and they were all different. It just takes alot of patience and persistance when they are young to show them the behavior you expect from them, but know that they will give you back tenfold everything you put into it. My ashley was what I guess you would call an agressive puppy, and stubborn and wanted her way in all things. She would act out if I didnt give her the attention she wanted etc, and puppies do alot of biting at that age. She didnt know that its painful when she bit my hand or chewed on me. Especially if they are used to playing with their littermates. I just had to be persistant with the toys and detour her from always chewing on my hands, etc. With boxers its just that they are very smart dogs, and they will figure out(just like your kids) what will get your attention, and to them at that age even negative attention isnt seen as negative until they know the difference. When I would scold Ashley she would bark back at me, like she was argueing or something. I had a hard time keeping a straight face most of the time. Noah(my male boxer), was the opposite. He doesnt like to be in trouble, the only attention he wants is loving, and he acts like you walked on him if he gets scolded. Just remember they will return it in the end.

 

[xenaprincess]

Alison, so glad to hear that they were in contact with rescue and were properly advised!! Vela says it all!! Vets are NOT qualified behaviourists and it is absolutely ridiculous that a 9/10wk old puppy is labelled with aggression issues and the suggestion of having him put down is so simply assinine!! Personally, I think the owners are jumping too far ahead and expecting WAY too much from a pup, although I also blame that on the vet for planting that seed in the 1st place! Puppy kindergarten would benefit this pup and the owners immenesly!! My Spirit is 1 now and he plays rough like any other puppy. When he gets too rough, he's ignored and he always gets the message! At his age, he still has the odd accident in the house...not often, and when he does it's our fault for not paying attention! I don't understand though why these people are putting food in his crate? The crate is for shelter..sleeping. Most animals will not mess where they have to sleep. Sounds like his crate is cramped living quarters!
Training a pup requires consistency...much the same as when training a baby/toddler! Would anyone ever suggest getting rid of a human because they soil their diapers or bite a sibling?? Hardly...so why expect so much from a pup?!! Best of luck to them..keep us posted!

 

[Bocephus]

Sorry my response is so long, but sounds familiar...

#1 - sounds like he was scared and lonely (a puppy).
#2 - sounds like he is just being a silly puppy and practicing pushing buttons to see how far he can go.
#3 - same as #1
#4 - did not fully relieve himself. Was he immediately crated after he came inside? If so, he may have already figured out that if he does this, it's out of jail time while they clean up the mess I just made.

"....The technician took him into the back for the worm test and when she brought him back she said he needed some serious training because he had an aggressive biting problem."

A stranger takes you from your owner and performs a worm test on you. Of course he would bite. He hasn't learned proper "human" responses.

I had this problem also when they would take Bo away from me and into the back. They would come out and tell me he was too much to handle, and after his ears were cropped, they gave him a small dose of demoral so they could retape him. Well, on his 3rd and final set of puppy shots and worm test, I stayed with him. We had no problems because he felt safe with me there. As a matter of fact, the techs he had nipped in the past even got boxer kisses.


"....She held him to her chest and held his head against her saying that was a move of domination. Of course the dog didn't like this and was squirming. She then took him and flipped him on his back like a baby and held his head again. He went nuts. He started barking and growling. She told him NO and it just made him more mad. He bit and scratched at her until she finally just put him down. She then told husband to try it and when he did the dog also went nuts. He scratched him to the point of drawing blood."

A stranger turns you upside down and holds your head? I would think the barking, growling, biting and scratching would be a natural instinct for a little puppy.

When Bo plops his feet on my lap, I grab his head and pull it to my chest and give his nose a big ol kiss, then turn him loose. A few minutes later and he's back for another. Or if he happens to be standing on his favorite place (the back of the recliner), I'll grab his face and give his nose a big ol kiss.

I have learned with my hyper puppy that he enjoys getting kisses.

 

[Benji's Dad]

Just a thought

Hi read your post (and replies) attentively.
Benji was quite the same at that age, except for the vet aggression which he strangely (and thankfully) did not display. I am no expert however this is what worked for me (and mostly for my wife):
We noticed that the more "bored" the dog was the more agressive he got. Basically if we left him locked up with little play on particular days he tended to get aggressive when you are ready to play. (Dont forget this is no computer game, which is ready to be played with when YOU want it). I concluded the aggressiveness was in reality lack of excercise, and the solution was to dedicate a few more minutes of fetch, tug and hiding kibble in an empty plastic bottle (for the minutes you go off to make a coffee). What I also found important is to remain close to the dog when he/she is tired and ready to snuggle (i.e. petting and calming). The dog learns (my unprofessional opinion) that you are near him even when he is calm, so you begin to replace his mother, and more importantly that there is no need to become aggressive and bite to get much needed attention. The first step to obtaining the calm dog, however, is a good play session, with as much running and as many toys as possible.... once its calm the rest is much easier.
(P.S. Had cats when I was young, and the similarity between boxers and cats is something that still amazes me...)

 

[kassa]

I agree that's it's premature to make a drastic decision, but I think a behaviorist AND an experienced boxer person who has raised dozens of boxer puppies should evaluate the pup now while it's still quite young.

There are puppy behaviors that are superficially violent but totally normal (biting, mouthing, growling) -- but there are also versions of the same behaviors that are NOT normal, and an experienced person can spot the difference. The second vet DID mention a lack of pain reaction. Lots of puppies bite in play, but a mild aversive will back them off for at least a second (before they usually launch back at you). The repetition of interrupting the behavior over and over (along with avoiding it in the first place) is what eventually extinguishes it. But it IS possible to have a puppy who won't let up, even for those few seconds in which the distraction can be provided.

I'm not sure where the puppy came from, but I HAVE seen some pretty nasty temperaments in a handful of very young puppies in the last couple of years, and knowing the owners and their other dogs, I place the blame on genetics in these cases.

The chances are great that this is simply an extraordinarily feisty puppy, one that will need great amounts of patience and diligence to mold into a good citizen. However, I wouldn't let that likelihood blind me to the viewpoints given by the vets -- it's not their area of expertise, but they DO examine lots of puppies and I suspect this isn't advice they give often, so there might well be something particularly off about this pup's forms and levels of resistance that is a major warning sign.

I'd leave the interpreting of those warning signs to people who are intimately acquainted with dogs in general and boxers in particular. And doing so now will give them a better idea of how much of it is nature/nurture.

 

[ssleighter]

Another update:

They contacted a local rescue and were given the name of a vet who knows Boxers as well some boxer puppy specific training info. The rescue person said that he is way to young to be labeled aggressive and that he is also too young to see a behavior specialist. Today they went for a walk and their puppy was so happy when these kids stopped to pet him. He licked them and was wagging his stubby

Thanks again!

This has to be the lady I spoke to a few days ago on the phone. She called me desperate for help. She's also joined a rescue list we have for our adopters so she can post questions there. I am glad to see she found someone on BW to post for her. I would have been happy to do so, but I have little time for my friends here at BW these days. Rescue consumes most of my free time now. I can't wait to hear what the vet says that I recommended her to. I don't recall saying that the pup was too young for a behaviorist, and would leave that call to the vet.

One of our volunteers also lives close to her and will offer her support if she needs it. We'll do what we can to make sure this family and pup have all the support we can offer.

I told her it was absurd for a vet to label a 9 week old puppy aggressive, and I stand behind that.

 

[Alidog]

This is unbelievable! I found that most of the visits I have seen over the years are genuinely interested in the welfare of the dog however are looking at issues with dogs with very professional and restricted views. It IS possible to have this puppy trained and behaviour corrected but these people need to be prepared to invest money and time into the dog..LOTS OF IT!
My Ali was a biter, jumper, aggressive puppy and liked to destruct things in our backyard. I will not go into great detail but let me just say, my partner (being a first time dog owner) was brought to tears one day while he was on his own with her just through pure stress and anger.
We decided to seek professional help but stayed clear of any vets! A vet is very chemical but a behaviourist can have an emotional and personal impact on a dog. We took her to a very stern trainer who trained dogs in police work and 'shitzen' if ive spelt it correctly. We did not seek his help for these purposes but for his dominance. We took her twice a week and handed the leash over to him. He taught us to be firm on the leash and firm in what we say. He also taught us an effective way to scold a dog. We grab her by the scruff of the neck if she snaps, bites or plays rough and shake (a mother will do this to her litter to scold) and if she bites we do this but much more firmly.
This may sound harsh but it was amazingly effective, this was nothing that she did not experience with her mother in the litter situation.

This dog does NOT need to put down but I must say it is disheartning to hear a vet utter those words of an animal so young

 

[Alidog]

One other thing..

If they are intent on seeing a vet, get them to one which is willing to take some time out with the dog to say hello, cuddle it, pat it and have a wee play. Maybe this is all he needs..to be shown that these humans are his friends and want to help him, not hurt him.

 

[kacee]

I agree with the members who want the couple to surrender the pup to rescue. Not everyone has the wherewithall to handle assertive puppies, and these owners are wigging out. I am not being critical; it IS awful! You have to work with them constantly while keeping a calm state of mind. Our last puppy was very much like the one described. I actually quit one of my part-time jobs so I could spend more time with her. She would be such a frantic squirming mess that we would restrain her several times a day and massage her until she relaxed. She is still, at a year and a half, more energetic and "bossier" than any of our previous dogs, but she is also very smart and fun. We are "getting there" with her bad behavior and most days glad we stuck it out with her, but as I said ... it is not worth it for everyone. There are lots of more passive dogs out there who would be better for this couple and there are people who like to work with the more agressive ones and they would be a better match for this puppy.

 

[ssleighter]

I disagree with surrendering this pup to rescue for a couple of reasons:

1) This puppy has been deemed aggressive by a vet and I am sure that's in writing somewhere. If the rescue in question takes the dog and places it, and it does bite in the future, the rescue would be liable and at risk for litigation. Not a scenario any rescue can afford to face. We do not place boxers with aggressive tendancies or with bite histories.

2) Rescue workers are overworked as it is. We do not have the time or money to spend that will be required to get a puppy like this evaluated by a behaviorist, nor will the puppy have a stable home environment. As great as our foster homes are, it's not a permanent home, so therefore it is unstable to the pup. There are often numerous dogs in the household as well, making the environment even harder to adjust to.

I recommended puppy classes and a behaviorist for the pup should they get no help from the puppy classes. This pup needs socialization and he needs to know who's boss. With the proper training and a firm commitment from his family, he should grow up just fine. I stand behind that advice.

I know that sometimes, dogs are aggressive from birth, for no explainable reason, but I feel this guy deserves a chance beyond 9-10 weeks.