Two quick questions/opinion wanted...

[Bathel]

I am in the process of looking for a boxer puppy. I have found a breader that come listed off (website removed by moderator)
I need your expert opinion on the Contract and the health screening results:

The Health screening results of the parents are as follows:

Parent One:
ARVC: Positive Heterozygous
SAS: Clear
Echo Doppler: 1.6 flow rate.
OFA #: BX-CA1879/16M/C-VPI-ECHO.
Holter : 3/12/11 0 VPC's
Clear of CHD: PennHip .48 DI, no cavitation or degenerative joint disease either hip.
DM: At Risk

Parent Two:
ARVC: Positive Heterozygous
SAS: Clear
Echo Doppler: 1.85 flow rate
OFA #: BX-CA2217/49F/C-NOPI-ECHO.
Holter: 2/24/12 2 VPC's
Thyroid: Normal
DM: Carrier

The contract that I would sign is as follows: (Please excuse any typos... I was typing it off the PDF and it is not Cut and paste....)

"This Boxer Puppy is beng sold for the price of $ 1,800.00 plus any shipping that applies. Deposits are one third th purchase price. The Breeder must receive full payment prior to delivery. If ears are to be cropped they will be done between 7 & 12 weeks of age. This Boxer is being sold with Limited/FULL AKC registration papers. As an AKC Breeder of Merit, all puppies mus be registered. (Breader Name removed) is the kennel name to be carried first on registered name of puppy. The new owner will spay or neuter this puppy before it is 8 months old if sold on a limited registration.

Health Guarantee:

We guarantee that the puppy is in good health an dhas received appropriate medical inoculations, worming and care. We will provide buyer with a medical chart detailing tratment puppy has received under ou care, and any future care we feel is essential to puppy's well being. We guarantee that the puppy is free of life threatening diseases or disabilities for 72 hours after delivery to buyer. Sould life threatening diseases or disabilities be discovered by the buyer withing 72 hours after receipt of puppy an dattested to in writing to us by buyer's veterinarian, we ill provide buyer with a replacement breed quality puppy as soon as such a puppy is available, or refund 100% of prchase price. If pupp is dianoised with SAS or ARVC within on year, replacement or reimbursement will be discussed. We strongly recommend that buyer have puppy examined by a licensed veterinarian of buyers choice within 72 hours of receipt. No veterinary bills will be paid by the breeder.

It is agreed that at no time will the owner sell this puppy or give the puppy to a pet store, puppy mill operation, dog pound broker or any similar enterprise. In the event that the owner needs to find a new home for th puppy, the breeder will have first choice to either take the pupp back or assist the buyer in finding a suitable home for the puppy. "


What are your thoughts.... it didn't sound like a very strong health guarantee and for that price I was expecting a bit stronger wording...

 

[Bathel]

Yes. After doing a good bit of research... the breeder has been showing dogs for about 23 years and has traveled around many states doing/winning shows.

They did DNA testing prior to breeding and choose to purchase forzen seamen from a champion dog on the west cost that had DNA testing too. They provided the DNA testing explained what they were looking for and why they choose the male they did.

Breeders always seem to me to be a mixed breed (pun intended)... My mind is so conditioned to quality being equal to what would equate to a good store front. Most breeders are not a "flashy" bunch. So I always feel a bet uneasy when it gets time to buy from a breeder.

I think some of the best breeders are not doing it to to sell dogs, but to find their next champion. This is the case with this breeder. They were not doing the breeding to sell the dogs... well, at least not the primary reason. They choose a match that was responasble to the breed and afforded them the best chance of getting a dog that may be their next champion. They only went with a litter of 3 dogs, so they were not doing huge litters also. Unfortunatly for them the two fawn boxers had a few small issues to the breed standard, but had no affect on the pet/temperment. IE, from what I can gather, my little girl had some white in areas that would be marked off in a show... I think they said under her eye lids or something to this degree.

I did pickup the puppy from the breeders house. It was clean enough and seemd to be geared to raise the dogs with the family during the 8 weeks they were there. They posted MANY MANY pictures of the puppys playing outside with their other dogs and animals. All three pups are Beutiful... not that all boxer pups are not beautiful, but these three really looked to be "boxers" if that makes sense. The Third pup was all white, and according to the breeder was a perfect build for the show ring, less the "white issue". She was bought within 3 hours of them listing her on facebook... and let me tell you, my wife who does not care for white boxers said that after seeing that one in person... if she had the pick of the litter, she would have choosen the white boxer.

Now, on the guarentee... I still don't feel good about the way it was worded; however, I wouldn't give up my little pup for anything anyway. I had her check by my vet... with a full workup and she checked out perfect. That's not to say in a year or two we won't see some type of genetic defect that would be cause for replacement... but at that point, I woudn't be giving her up anyway.

I would say that I would recommned them to anyone IF they are worried about a guarentee. In the end that wasn't a deal breaker for me... for others it may be...

 

[darwinsmom]

Obviously too late in my response here but there are two things that concern me about the test results. Both parents carry one ARVC gene - definitely not a great choice, much better to breed a positive heterozygous with a negative. Then there is no chance that the pups carry two copies of the mutated gene. The health guarantee for ARVC is pretty useless, since this disease most commonly presents in adults. My boy was diagnosed shortly before his 8th birthday.

The degenerative myelopathy results are also troubling. An at risk dog has two copies of the mutated gene that may lead to the development of DM. A carrier has one copy of the normal gene and one of the mutated gene. The breeding of a carrier and an at risk dog will only produce carriers and at risk dogs - no clear dogs. Since so many dogs are at risk or carriers it is difficult to eliminate them completely from breeding programs but in order to reduce the prevalence of the gene in the breeding pool at risk dogs should be bred to clear dogs.

Since there are several serious genetic diseases associated with the breed there are often non-ideal decisions made - for example breeding two DM carriers because they are clear of ARVC - but that isn't the case here.