To crop or not to crop?

[jeffbotteril]

It's a personal choice for the owner in countries that allow cropping certainly.

Given the option which we do not have in the UK and other countries to crop, I'd decline for much the same reasons as have already been given by others. The natural ears are IMO a plus in the looks dept. for a boxer and I would not want to cause the dog pain and/or discomfort merely for cosmetic purposes.

However, I can understand how in certain countries such as the US, if performed correctly why some owners prefer the ears cropped.

The following would have swayed the argument against cropping for me as a personal choice should I have been given one:


The "Mutilations Report" by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS) in the UK states:

"Cropping of ears
This procedure is unacceptable in that it is carried out for reasons of fashion only, with no benefit to the dog."

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Pr...stParentNodeID=89642&int2ndParentNodeID=89738

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"The Wansbrough Report
Australian Veterinary Journal Vol 74, No. 1, July 1996
INCORRECT MYTHS ABOUT PAIN.

Several myths about pain have been propagated for years and form the basis on which cosmetic tail docking has been justified and allowed to be perpetuated.
MYTH 1 - Animals don't feel pain like humans. This is illogical. Anatomically and physiologically mammals(and possibly all vertebrates) have the same neural transmitters, receptors, pathways and higher brain centres.

Whilst it is true that animals may show different signs of pain, we cannot deny that they feel pain in the same way humans do (Fleeman 1995). Because of the physiological similarity between mammals, it is valid to use animals, including dogs, as models for human medical research.

The converse applies in that man can be used as a model for advancing veterinary knowledge. Similarity between the human and canine nervous systems means that we can assume that anything causing pain in man will cause a painful sensation of similar intensity in the dog.

The pain threshold has been determined to be approximately equal in humans and animals
(Fleeman 1995)."

 

[Keeroff]

How many dockings have you witnessed? Some pups most certainly yelp. They get no anasthetic for this one, not even a local.

i have NEVER heard of a pup yelping when tail docking. actually, they dont notice a thing. are you talking about 3-4 days old pups? or older pups? you would dock the tail of an older pup???

 

[JulieM]

she has seen 4-5 vets doing that procedure and says almost all of the pups yelp from pain. can you assume that all 5 of them dont do the anaisthisia properly?

Yes. Aside from the obvious, already noted intubation deterrent to yelpping, the entire point of anesthetizing a patient is so that they are unaware of sensation, including pain, while the procedure is performed. If the pups are yelping from pain *during* an ear crop, that means they are awake enough to *feel* the procedure being done, which absolutely means improper anesthetization. (In fact, it would probably be considered animal cruelty by most.)

Pups do sometimes cry (I wouldn't call it an actual yelp) when coming out of anesthesia; perhaps that is what your friend is describing.

As for docking - in my own experience, pups start crying as soon as they're removed from their littermates and stop crying when they're returned to them. These are 2-4 day old pups; I've not witnessed any done later than that.

 

[jeffbotteril]

i have NEVER heard of a pup yelping when tail docking. actually, they dont notice a thing. are you talking about 3-4 days old pups? or older pups? you would dock the tail of an older pup???

I'm not against docking when done properly. However, I find the argument that pups do not feel a thing when their tails are docked to be unbelievable to say the least.

My dog is docked, but I at least recognise that it would have been very painful for the pup and am willing to take responsibility as the breeder for that rightly or wrongly.

I would in future seek out a dog that had not been docked, even without govt legislation against docking.

The UK Govt Dept (Animal Welfare Veterinary Division) responsible for the welfare of animals would disagree with you Keerof:

"6.5
Protagonists of docking insist that puppies do not feel pain when amputation of the tail takes place within a few days of birth and that the temporary discomfort, if any, is soon dispelled as many puppies become quiet afterwards and search for the dam's teats in order to suckle.

It is uncommon for either analgesia or anaesthesia to be used and opponents of docking believe it is quite obvious that puppies do feel acute pain at docking.

The initial pain from the direct injury to the nervous system caused by cutting or crushing the tail of a neonatal puppy would be intense and at a level that would not be permitted to be inflicted upon a human (Wansborough 1996).

Abnormal vocalisation characterised by either whimpering or squealing with wriggling of the tail stump or the whole body, and sometimes urination, are common reactions.

Merely because some puppies cease making noises soon afterwards cannot be construed as an indication that any pain has stopped as animals tend to be more stoic than humans due to an inherent preservation instinct (Wansborough 1996)."

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/wel...lttaildocking.pdf#search="defra tail docking"

 

[gmacleod]

i have NEVER heard of a pup yelping when tail docking. actually, they dont notice a thing. are you talking about 3-4 days old pups? or older pups? you would dock the tail of an older pup???

I am talking about 2-3 day old pups. You may not have heard of a pup yelping when his tail is cut off without any form of anasthetic - but have you ever actually witnessed it? That "they don't notice a thing" is utter nonsense.

Whether or not pups have sufficiently developed nerves to be traumatised by docking is a matter of some debate. But nobody (in the reputable science field, that is) has ever suggested that they don't feel pain - it's just a matter of how much.

 

[Mama_Zookeeper]

I have had 5 boxers in my life 3 were cropped and 2 uncropped. I agree with others who feel it is a personal choice and you must evaluate how much time & effort you are willing to devote to taping & up keep.

Of the three who have been cropped all came home from the vet and were playing within hours. None yelped, overly bled, or showed obvious signs of pain. None of them wore an "e-collar". All had ears standing within 2-3 months of surgery & first taping.

For me it is about the look of the dog. I personally like flashy dogs left natural and plains cropped. I would never crop a white dog. Coincidence but all my cropped pups were males and the 2 uncropped females. Zoe was white & I saw no need to do this to her, also we lived in the UK at the time so it was really never an option. Miss Bea was found by us too old to be cropped. With her plain black mask I think she would have been gorgeous cropped but her floppy ears suit her personality so well. Look at the ear itself and find an experienced vet who really knows what they are doing. Some ears should not be cropped and a vet with experience will be able to tell you this.

As for yelps in surgeries. That is horrifying! MY pups have unfortunately had several surgeries for neuter, spay, MST removal, hip repair. I cannot even begin to imagine this and quite honestly think any vet who is not properly anesth. animals should be reported immediately.

I know the OP has made their decision and I am glad they were able to get useful info to help them.

Dora

 

[Keeroff]

Whether or not pups have sufficiently developed nerves to be traumatised by docking is a matter of some debate. But nobody (in the reputable science field, that is) has ever suggested that they don't feel pain - it's just a matter of how much.

personally i dont think puppies have developed nerves to be taumatised when new born.
im definately absolutely AGAINST cosmetic surgeries and i would NEVER witness anything like that!!! however, people that have actually watched this, claim that pups dont react at tail docking.
also, dont forget that i am talking about a friend's experience on ear and tail docking. FORTUNATELY NOT MINE!