question about breeding
- Thread starter jaxjax79
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Very funny Dan I'm from Arkansas.
Ha Ha No I'm just kidding!! =) I'm in Indiana. Your reply did make me laugh though.
I wasn't sure if this was a dumb question but our breeder said this was OK to do. Our boxer has been kinda sickly since we've had him (6 wks old). We've had him in and out of the vets for months now. Well most recently, he had to have surgery, his intestine collapsed and the vet removed about 3 inches of his intestine. The vet said it was a birth defect that had gradually gotten worse. He's doing better now, but I was just wondering if all of these problems were caused from him being inbred.
JulieM
Boxer Insane
This is true for any breeding, line-breeding or outcross. In dogs, close breedings are not morally unacceptable as they are in humans, and actually area a "safer" bet for a new breeder because if you know what's behind one dog, you pretty much know what's behind the other one. (Close in this case meaning grandfather-granddaughter - a very popular, "good" breeding - aunt-nephew, half-siblings, etc.) Really close, like mother-son, father-daughter, brother-sister are a bit more tricky. Outcrosses (or at least the closest we can get to them in our breed, where there are no common ancestors for 4-5 generations) are trickiest - because there may be no problems in either line, but you don't know what kind of horrors bringing them together will unleash.
That said, many people feel that outcrosses are the only way to go because we are working with such a narrow gene pool. It's a tough situation, and each breeder needs to make their own choices. I've done two line breedings, with good results, and my next one will be an outcross - so we'll see what happens!
Julie
Alisha Mobley
Boxer Insane
I have read much about this and so far most say leave the in-breeding/line breeding to the experts. Mine will be catagorized as outcross breeding. I felt for me (not an expert:D) this would be safer but Julie has a very good point that I hadn't thought about. I thought getting through all the health tests was stressful enough now I have the thought of not knowing what will come out of these totaly different lines stressing me too, thanks Julie (just kidding :D). Julie, I wish you luck with your next breeding and hopefully all the pups will be as healthy as the litters before.
jaxjax79, what part of Indiana are you from?
jaxjax79, what part of Indiana are you from?
Alisha
I'm from New Haven, it's just east of Fort Wayne. My aunt and uncle live in Indy and own a house on Lemon Lake so we go to the Lake a few times a summer. I think Ellettsville is kinda near there.? Thanks for your response. Gosh, I'm learning so much from this forum, I'm so glad I found it!!
I'm from New Haven, it's just east of Fort Wayne. My aunt and uncle live in Indy and own a house on Lemon Lake so we go to the Lake a few times a summer. I think Ellettsville is kinda near there.? Thanks for your response. Gosh, I'm learning so much from this forum, I'm so glad I found it!!
JulieM
Boxer Insane
Thanks for the well wishes, Alisha, and I'll let you know how it goes 
Breeding is stressful either way, it's just a matter of how the gene pool mixes. If you're lucky enough to find a stud owner who has done all the testing and who will be very open with you about the problems in their line, you're three steps ahead of the game!
Julie
Breeding is stressful either way, it's just a matter of how the gene pool mixes. If you're lucky enough to find a stud owner who has done all the testing and who will be very open with you about the problems in their line, you're three steps ahead of the game!Julie
J
JTPappy
Guest
Right now there is a study involviing Boxers and their ability to alert to seizures in humans. This is a very little understood "talent".Very few dogs, regardless of breed can do it. Even fewer proven Service Dogs can alert "blind" to more than one individual and even rarer still to total strangers.
With that in mind, at least 21 living Boxers can "alert". 13 can do it blind. 14 have a connection to one American Boxer bloodline. 10 are directly related, my Caesar being the oldest.
Even with the pressure to try to breed for this "talent", to try to see if indeed it can be bred for, the scientists involved in the study are against breeding parent to pup or brothers to sisters. They are even reluctant to breed cousins, or aunt/uncle to niece/nephew if both mates have the "alert" talent. So far the one adult litter produced by an uncle/niece mating has proved to be healthy to date and successful in producing some additional "alert" Boxer SDs.
I find it significant that even in light of that success, everybody is still wary of such a close relationship of sire and dam.
Jim
With that in mind, at least 21 living Boxers can "alert". 13 can do it blind. 14 have a connection to one American Boxer bloodline. 10 are directly related, my Caesar being the oldest.
Even with the pressure to try to breed for this "talent", to try to see if indeed it can be bred for, the scientists involved in the study are against breeding parent to pup or brothers to sisters. They are even reluctant to breed cousins, or aunt/uncle to niece/nephew if both mates have the "alert" talent. So far the one adult litter produced by an uncle/niece mating has proved to be healthy to date and successful in producing some additional "alert" Boxer SDs.
I find it significant that even in light of that success, everybody is still wary of such a close relationship of sire and dam.
Jim
JulieM
Boxer Insane
Jim, have they said *why* they're against close breedings? Mother-son, brother-sister I can understand as they are tricker than aunt-nephew or cousins. Are they involved in breeding other than this specific research topic? I'm always interested in who draws the line on close breedings, and where.
Most of the information I've read from well-established breeders (in many breeds) promotes the opinion that close breeding (linebreeding or inbreeding) is the most effective way to produce uniformity of type, prepotency, and cleansing of undesirable traits from the gene pool to better the future of the breed. The best breeding program is a combination of close breeding and outcrossing, of course, but you really have to know your lines. Another problem with outcrossing is that often the offspring will lack genetic prepotency.
There is, of course, the Canine Diversity Project who believe that assortative mating - breeding dogs that are phenotypically similar regardless of genotype - is the best way to go. They are concerned with producing dogs with low Coefficients of Inbreeding. They also are concerned with the overuse of popular sires, which is very much an issue in the Boxer. Their website is here:
http://www.magma.ca/~kaitlin/diverse.html
One of the most common-sense approaches to a breeding program (IMO, of course) is here:
http://www.compuped.com/bell.htm
Julie
Most of the information I've read from well-established breeders (in many breeds) promotes the opinion that close breeding (linebreeding or inbreeding) is the most effective way to produce uniformity of type, prepotency, and cleansing of undesirable traits from the gene pool to better the future of the breed. The best breeding program is a combination of close breeding and outcrossing, of course, but you really have to know your lines. Another problem with outcrossing is that often the offspring will lack genetic prepotency.
There is, of course, the Canine Diversity Project who believe that assortative mating - breeding dogs that are phenotypically similar regardless of genotype - is the best way to go. They are concerned with producing dogs with low Coefficients of Inbreeding. They also are concerned with the overuse of popular sires, which is very much an issue in the Boxer. Their website is here:
http://www.magma.ca/~kaitlin/diverse.html
One of the most common-sense approaches to a breeding program (IMO, of course) is here:
http://www.compuped.com/bell.htm
Julie
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