pulling... at my arm's end...

[sjtorr]

Ok - for a walk, we are pretty good - use the gentle leader, and with her backpack on (empty since she's still only 6 months), she behaves really well, even with other dogs. There is one exception - her friend down the street who she loves to play with.

Today we were in the back yard, relaxing, and it's my fault I didn't have a good hold on her long lead. She took off - to meet her friend from down the street on a walk. Once I caught up, thankfully the owners know she just wants to play, we tried the whole drill of keeping her at a distance and gradually getting closer - that hurt - the martingale collar turned it into a pulling match. Finally gave up, let her friend go home after about 15 minutes of dog vs owner strength battle. Tried to make her heel the short way back to the house, and it was hell ... constant pulling.

Now. all that said... Anyone have any suggestions on how to prevent her from pulling without using the gentle leader? just with using a regular martingale collar? Do I just need to do constant drills only using the martingale until she accepts that regardless which collar, she has to behave? Or is it just the wonderful teenage months and she'll grow out of it?
On a good note, I'm getting stronger from dealing with her... but she still has 30 lbs to gain... not sure how much longer I can handle her if she does this again, and I'd like to refrain from having the leader on EVERY time we go outside.

 

[CoraBoxer]

I had a lot more success with a regular martingale than the gentle leader. You don't want to let her pull. You want to catch it while you still have slack on the leash. Don't jerk her back or anything. For me pulling back (fairly) quickly to get the collar to tighten and right away release worked to get the dogs attention. And, mine would come back to me. I'm talking about when you're standing still. For times when the pulling continues and I want mine close to me I don't hold the leash, but instead hold the metal (chain) part of the collar, while it sits very high on the neck. Guess this is either possible or not depending on how high the dog stands/sits relative to you. What I found helps is to get a fairly flexible leash as opposed to one of those thick ones. Loop once around the index finger holding both ends of the loop - a lot easier to hold the leash this way. No effort needed to avoid the dog slipping away. Don't let her see the other dog until the pulling stops. She will understand, with time, that the only way to meet her friend is to stay by your side.

I find it helps to stick to one training device instead of swapping back and forth. Give it a bit of time and learn to use it properly if you aren't already. The more choice you give a dog the more picky it gets.

 

[sjtorr]

I hear you on the one training device. But I don't like how the leader can seem to cut in, which is why we only use it on walks.

We started with the martingale - no use - constant pulling and she just doesn't respond. She can just about choke herself with it. She is now so strong that there is no way I can just use martingale with her on a regular walk. It might be ok if there are no distractions, but as soon as there is a distraction, she's gone - and my mom comes to sit every once in a while - at least with the leader we can control her. The real question is how do we wean her off the leader to behave well with the martingale? short pulls and then relaxing just don't work on her- it's like she doesn't even feel the tug.

Maybe it will be easier when she's older? Have you been using martingale right from puppyhood? Maybe I screwed up when she was younger and now I'm kinda stuck until I figure this out?

 

[LILYLARUE]

Boxers can really hurt themselves if they are collar pullers/chokers. My suggestion would be the easy walk harness, though the new design sucks and actually causes injuries. There is a good no-pull harness by 1" Freedom No Pull Harness (Medium and Large Breeds) - Freedom No-Pull Harness - 2 Hounds Design

I would use the double connect - back and chest - on your pup until she is leash trained. Watch their videos - very informative and without it, you can create more problems in her training.

 

[TwoDogs]

A lot of people are in the same boat as you are. They use a piece of equipment to manage a behavior and then find that they are stuck using it because the dog only does the behavior when the equipment is on. Management doesn't take the place of training. It can help save your shoulder while you work on the training but you shouldn't stop at management. Once the level of training reaches a certain point you can start weaning away from the equipment like I'll describe below.

But first instead of just managing what you don't want her to do--pull, teach her what you want her to do--walk nicely by your side. Define a position you want her to be in. This is important--it needs to be consistent. It might be within 2 feet of your left side but not forward of your left leg and not lagging more than 2 feet behind you. Reward your dog for being in that position. Reward her for following you and maintaining that position as you take steps. Give the behavior a verbal cue like "with me" or "heel" or whatever. Practice over and over and over and over until you can give that cue and your dog does the behavior. Do all of this in the house then in the yard then in the driveway where there are little distractions until you know the dog knows what you expect of her when you say that cue because she actually does the behavior.

Now you are ready for more. Double leash her. You can use two leashes or a double-ended leash. Hook one to the Gentle Leader and one to the martingale. My preference is to hold the leash attached to the collar in my hands and to have the leash attached to the Gentle Leader around my waist. You should keep the primary leash short enough that the GL leash only goes taut when the dog reaches the end of the primary leash. Remember the position you've decided you want her to walk in. Both leashes should be slack when the dog is in position.

Give her the cue and start off. If she responds by maintaining that position then praise her really well. If she starts to move from that position (and well before she hits the end of the leashes) give her a verbal correction like "Eh-eh" and apply a small amount of tension on the leash connected to the martingale. If she responds by returning to position then release the tension and praise her really well. If she doesn't respond to the martingale, then reach out and apply some tension to the leash connected to the Gentle Leader. You can combine this action with a 360 degree turn to your right. The dog should now be back in the correct position. Re-cue as you walk forward again.

With repetition she will learn that if she responds to tension on the martingale first, she will be able to avoid the tension on the Gentle Leader and if she had just listened to the cue to heel in the first place she could have avoided the whole thing.

Over time, you should find that she is responding more and more to your cue and the guidance from the leash attached to the collar and you'll be using the GL less and less. At this time, you can switch the leash on the GL to a more lightweight one with a lighter clasp (which is why I like to use 2 separate leashes). You want it to be less and less obvious to the dog that they are even wearing the GL on walks. Eventually, you can put the GL on the dog but not even attach a leash to it, just use the leash attached to the collar because their response to the cue and feedback from the collar is so high. Then move to using no GL at all.

It is still a lengthy process and requires a whole lot of practice and consistency but the only way to wean off equipment is to replace management with training.

 

[sjtorr]

Awesome - that was the progression I was trying to get to... Let me guess... it's a long slow road to overnight success?

We have the first part downpat... the walking with the leader, at the correct position, with no distractions. I could probably do a no-distraction walk just with the martingale. It's the distractions that make it interesting. Repeat repeat repeat... I'll make it there!

 

[TwoDogs]

Let me guess... it's a long slow road to overnight success?

You got it. Just keep plugging away at it though and you'll get there.

 

[whiskers]

I just want to chime in with this too, I don't know if it's been mentioned... that martingales are not "training collars," there's nothing about them that would deter a dog from pulling (typically). So it is not really surprising that he still pulls in a martingale

Leash training is a pain in the butt that's for sure .

 

[TwoDogs]

My suggestion would be the easy walk harness, though the new design sucks and actually causes injuries.

I've not seen a new design from the EW. How is it different and where did you hear that it causes injuries? I would hate to think that is the case. The EW works so well for so many dogs and it is readily available to so many people (just about every pet store I've been in around me sells them).

I do like the Freedom Harness better. There is less chance of slippage and the double attachment points are very useful. It is definitely my go-to brand recommendation for specific body types and breeds but I've also had good results with the EW when fit wasn't an issue.