Poll Spay and Neuter all pets that are rescued? I understand that policy...but....

[Chewy's Mom]

Go Sube Ru's Mom!!! I agree! Maybe for those who don't want to spay/neuter their dogs (other than those who show and breed responsibly) they should first go work in rescue or volunteer at a shelter before answering this type of question. Then if they want to keep their opinion - fine, at least they have seen what really goes on out there, and why spaying/neutering is really so important.

 

[Loke]

Re: Sexism?

Originally posted by JAC1975
Wow...great thread everyone!

One thing I noticed that no one seems to have picked up was the early discussion of "Well, I have one of my pets fixed, so why should I do the other?" Time and again, it seemed that people automatically spay the female, but leave the male intact. Why is that? Could it be that being "male" is more important in the owner's eyes, and that neutering makes the dog less of a "man"?

I can tell you that was not a factor in leaving Corgan intact. Reasoning...
1) He's male and he isn't going anywhere to get a female pregnant.
2) At the time I didn't have the money to do it.
3) I didn't know better.

I could care less about him keeping his "manhood". Loke on the other hand got spayed because I didn't want a litter of boxer/shelties or boxer/? and heat is a pain in the rear. I had always had the impression that females get fixed or you have puppies, but males it doesn't matter because they do it to someone else. Now I KNOW that is wrong thinking, but it's the way it was and it stuck a little bit with me. I did make sure Corgan was never out to impregnate another though. If you knew him you'd know how unlikely he is to run off for any reason. He is my shadow and he doesn't go anywhere that I don't know about.

 

[Chewy's Mom]

Loke,

That is some pretty interesting insight into the thinking behind not spaying/neutering. It's like dads who are sooo protective of their (skin) daughters, but almost encourage their (skin) sons to go "get some." Not saying that any of you are encouraging your boys to go get some - not at all. It's just a matter of who has to deal with the pregnancy/litter. It would always be the family of the famale - not the male. Again, very interesting.

 

[Loke]

It is always very interesting to get insight on one's old way of thinking and then to see how much that has changed with some new up to date info. There is always the double standard, and it weird that it even extends to our pets! It's always, the female needs to know how to avoid the pregnancy or with pets, the owners of the female need to do what ever necessary to prevent puppies. I do realize now waht narrow thinking was behind my decision to keep Corgan intact. If you were able you could ask my mom what one of my biggest regrets....not getting Corgan neutered. It has taken me 5 years to reach that point, but he was also my first dog that was my sole responsibility and I made mistakes. I know that. I am just thankful that he has not contributed to the over population of pets. That is a FACT. I can't say that about pets we had while I was growing up. I'm pretty certain our male made some puppies. I know my grandmother never had any females fixed cause she had at least 3 litters. Of course that was 20 years ago and alot has changed in that time, but not enough by the statistics given from shelters.
:( I, for one, will no longer think that way. All my dogs and cats will be fixed. Loke and Julian (male kitty) are both fixed. Corgan and Buttons (7 months) will be soon. :cool:

 

[Zsara]

Insight into why I feel different about neutering male dogs...

And Please don't hold this against me....
]
I grew up in S. E. Washington DC. The youngest of 3 children and the only girl. Traveling in the city even during those times could be dangerous with gangs and the "Projects" nearby. I lived in a middle class home and my parents both worked for the D.C.Government. We all went to private schools.

I remember having a male boxer named Chico who was my consant companion. Noone bothered me as he followed me where ever I went and returned home If I happen to spend the night at a girl friends.

In the city..... neighborhood kids participated in dog fights. Chico, however was never beat. He would attack on my command and I hardly ever had him on a lead. That being said I did not make him fight...... But I did break up several dog fights during my time... due to strays in the neigborhood or other kids from other neigborhoods trying to prove their dog was the best.

I never really owned females dogs and Chico was one of the best dogs I have ever owned. As an adult I have had 2 Great Danes, a very smart shaggy dog named CoChise and a Shitz Zu Tiko.

I think the fact that my male dogs have always been for the most part large and protective (and not neutered) caused me to never consider any other option until now. Yes an un-neutered male looks strange to me. Yes I like knowing that my dog has a heart but can stand up to the plate if necessary.

My past with Chico was over 30 years ago in my pre-teens. I am sure those experiences colored my thoughts on the topic. I have never bred a dog or paid for a dog even though my Great Danes where of show dog stock. (owned by friends of the family) but not showable colores)

Now having been informed about the importance of neutering males and receiving orientation to work as a SPCA volunteer I am now ready to take the right step and neuter my baby Blade.

Hopefully in the not too distant future I will be blessed with another wonderful pet...this time a rescue or young handsome pup from the shelter.
:p lovicon

 

[Aimee]

Re: Why the female & not the male and other stuff

Originally posted by uno
I know and believe that the only reason to breed is to improve the breed, but I also know that if that were followed 100% of the time most of us on this board would not have Boxers. They'd be far too expensive.

If that day were to ever arrive, I could die that day and be happy. That is what I strive for working in rescue and helping the shelters. I pray that one day there will be no shelters, no rescue workers, no homeless animals. If that made dogs expensive to own, then they would actually become a priviledge to own, as they should be. They are not an item to be bought, played with and then shoved aside when the novelty has worn off. Look around at society, if there were far less dogs available and they were more expensive to buy, they would be far better taken care of. IMO, if you buy a beater car you don't care much what happens to it, you splurge on a mercedes and you are washing and waxing it weekly. The more something costs, the better we care for it--plain and simple.

 

[myrocky]

Amen Aimee!! :D

 

[uno]

I'm trying to take my own advice and heed

The difference between a smart person and a wise person is that a smart person knows what to say and a wise person knows whether to say it or not.

I'll answer your questions, but please answer mine.

Uno- what reason do you have for breeding dempsey?

My reason is just as I said to "improve the breed". Dempsey is of championship lineage and would be where I would want to start MY line.

you said you would have dempsey health checked, are you also going to make sure the female is health checked and everything else. because if not you are still adding to the byb problem.

Of course any female would have to be health checked. I would also insist that a minimum 20 potential owners who've been checked be lined up prior to any breeding, but that's a matter to be negotiated between me and the owner of the dam.

it sounds to me that you are wanting to breed because you can.

I don't know where you got that from. I think you read (past tense) far too much between the lines. Nothing I wrote implies that. If I felt that way why would I even mention health testing?

trying to understand why you want to breed dempsey when you are not a breeder and sounds like you have no intention of breeding, thereby risking dempseys health because of cancer and adding to the overpopulation problem.

True I am currently not a breeder, but does that mean that I never can be one? While my degree is in management science, I have studied biology, and I'm intrigued by genetics. If I want Dempsey to be the start of my line, I can't have him neutered. That's a one way street. I am aware of testicular cancer being a possibility in unneutered dogs, but not one of the posts in this thread has mentioned the percentage. Is it 1%, 10%, 50% 75%?

If that made dogs expensive to own, then they would actually become a priviledge to own, as they should be. They are not an item to be bought, played with and then shoved aside when the novelty has worn off. Look around at society, if there were far less dogs available and they were more expensive to buy, they would be far better taken care of. IMO

Aimee I agree it's a priviledge to own a dog, especially a Boxer, but the fact of the matter is that, whether you or I like it or not, dogs are a commodities that are bought. In your scenario who is to say what person/family is worthy of owning a dog? Are only the rich worthy or are dogs to be awarded on some type of merit basis? If so who is the high and mighty muckety muck that says you're worthy and you're not? The dog I had growing up was a mutt that didn't cost a dime, but he was cared for and loved his whole life, all 15 years.

Now can someone answer my questions?

who is to say what's an improvement? Should only Boxers that win in the confirmation ring be bred? What about those that don't win? Should they not be bred even though they're good enough to compete in the ring?
What about Boxers that compete in the agility ring, but aren't "pretty" enough to compete in the confirmation ring? Should they also not be bred? There is also the question of the "invisible" characteristics that can't be seen in the show and agility rings. I'm talking about our Boxers trustworthiness, their reliability, how affectionate they are, there gentleness with children. Those are characteristics that can't be measured in any type of ring, but they're certainly necessary in a Boxer. Would any of us want a show and agility champion that didn't have these "invisible" characteristics? I highly doubt it. Which brings me back to my question "who is to say"?

 

[Boxer_21]

My final thoughts on this subject..

Well this turned out to be a great thread. We got a pretty good discussion going on and no one really seems to be attacking anyone for their opinions/beliefs. Anyway, I just wanted to post one last message about this subject, so here goes...

I feel that people owning pets that are not being shown in the ring and are not being "responsibly bred" should have their pets spayed or neutered. This would undoubtably cut down on the number of animals dropped off at shelters. While I don't have any kind of background into the rescue/shelter area, it's just common sense to know that it would. The less animals born would equal less animals dropped off at shelters.
I have ALWAYS done the right thing by spaying and neutering my pets at the earliest legal age of 6 months (in most cases). Riley has been the only pet that I've had that I would actually *consider* (WHICH I HAVEN'T) leaving unaltered. I say consider because I'm very interested in learning more about showing. However, the show ring just doesn't fit in my life right now and I don't epect it will until years down the line, maybe not even until after Riley goes to the bridge. That's why I chose to get Riley neutered. Many people think I'm stupid for neutering him. They think that I should stud him out. That again is not an option. Even when/if Istart to show, I don't think that I'd breed. Just the thought of producing puppies that could end up in shelters or even in abusive homes is enough to scare me away from breeding. Perhaps in this case, fear is a good thing.
I also wanted to say that everyone here has been raised under different circumstances. Everyone here has been taught different things. Everyone here is living different lives that have different circumstances. Most importantly everyone here has different dogs that behave in different ways. That's why I personally think it's wrong to group the "unaltering owners" in one group and calling them irresponsible without knowing them and/or their dog(s).
I do understand the people here that are involved in rescue have very strong beliefs after living through so many rescue and seeing so many horrible things. I have nothing but respect for these people. I hope to one day join a rescue to volunteer. I only hope that I to can be so strong and to go trough what they go through on a daily basis. I just think that saying someone is irresponsible and a bad pet owner without knowing them, their pets, an/or their situations is very judgemental and in some cases even uncalled for.
Well, that's pretty much all I wanted to say. I hope I haven't upset anyone. I'm just trying to say how I feel. AsI said before, I'm also a huge of spaying and neutering, but I honestly don't feel that I have any right to judge anyone that I've never met.

 

[Mom3]

Whew! What a thread. . . and how refreshing to know that we can be passionate about our opinions, but still not "cross that line" that would shut this thread down.

I'd just like to address what Zsara said about neutering and the "protection" factor because I think it's something a lot of people wonder about. With my first Boxer I faced a similar situation. Would he still have that "protective instinct" if I had him neutered? He definitely did. I've now had four dogs (two Boxers, one GSD, and one Lab) and all have been neutered. None of them lost their instinct to guard what was theirs (i.e. "me", the house, the kids, etc.).

The added "bonus" (if I can call it that) of having a Boxer in an unsafe part of town is that most people make the assumption that they are fierce dogs, based solely on their looks. (Although that's not necessarily an assumption I want to promote, it doesn't hurt in certain situations.) Few people are going to stop to check the backend of a Boxer who is on alert to see if it's an intact male. :p

I personally think you are making the correct, responsible decision about having Blade neutered, given your circumstances (i.e. you aren't going to breed or show him). Good luck, Zsara!