Pancreatitis Again...Food & Ideas?

[Loladog]

Well, for about a month I was feeding Lola the Innova Large Breed Senior with Halo Spot's Stew Chicken. I thought she was doing well. She'd been having firm stools and she wasn't too gassy. Then last weekend she started to hesitate at meal time and starting Monday morning, she stopped eating completely. She also started having diarrhea and all she wanted to do was eat tons of grass! We took her in for and exam and blood work and two problems were going on. First, she was having another Pancreatitis episode and 2nd, her Cushing's medication was too high which caused her Cortisone levels to be too low. Poor thing must have felt terrible! In terms of the Pancreatitis, the diet I'd been feeding her clearly wasn't low enough in fat.

We now have her on home-prepared which the vet highly recommends we keep her on permanently. Currently, she's just getting boiled chicken and rice with some cottage cheese. Obviously, we will need to create a balanced diet if this is going to be permanent.

We also had very good luck with the low-fat California Natural Chicken and Rice when Lola was first diagnosed with Pancreatitis last year (and bad luck with the Lamb version). I honestly don't know why I ever changed. I guess I was just worried that it was too high in carbs and low in meat and when she started feeling better, I think I became overly brave. If home cooking doesn't work out, that will be the only food that I will go back to as it is the perfect amount of fat for Lola's issues. I'm very happy to hear that you might have a good combo going for Papi!

DENALIGIRL, How is the home cooking working out for Zoey?

 

[a1r1ka]

Come to think of it, Papi did have a weird morning two days ago where he hesitated eating and I had to sort of force feed him bits of Halo until he decided he was hungry. I guess I've gotten so used to that behavior that I didn't think too much of it at the time, but that's not normal or ok is it? I wonder if he needs to take meds on an ongoing basis to keep his stomach calm...time to get him rechecked.

 

[Loladog]

Come to think of it, Papi did have a weird morning two days ago where he hesitated eating and I had to sort of force feed him bits of Halo until he decided he was hungry. I guess I've gotten so used to that behavior that I didn't think too much of it at the time, but that's not normal or ok is it? I wonder if he needs to take meds on an ongoing basis to keep his stomach calm...time to get him rechecked.

I almost wonder if the Halo Spot's Stew is higher in fat than we think? They are not very forthcoming with Nutritional Analysis info when you contact them either. When I e-mailed, they simply said that the food wouldn't be more than .5% higher than the listed 3.5%. Since we don't know the kcals per kg either, it's impossible to calculate exactly how much fat the food has. I know the Innova Large Breed Senior that I was feeding with the Spot's Stew is low-fat since Natura lists a complete nutritional analysis on their website. However, something caused Lola's Pancreatic Lipase levels to go up again.

If Papi was always a good eater before the Pancreatitis, it's not normal if he hesitates or refuses to eat. They told me at the vet the other day that you shouldn't have to coax them to eat. Definitely keep an eye on his appetite and get his Spec cPL re-checked if you think he's "off". Maybe cut out the Spot's stew and just feed the Calif. Natural Low-Fat if he likes it plain. Keep us posted on how he's doing.

 

[DENALIGIRL]

DENALIGIRL, How is the home cooking working out for Zoey?

Sorry for being off the board for so long - life has been a little crazy and back and forth - new house, old house, Zoey's condition, work, etc. Zoey's home-cooking has gone extremely well and she couldn't be happier than to have a home cooked meal! I can't imagine why She is so spoiled. Right now we are doing boiled ground sirloin/round/chuck - anything 85% lean or more or at least two days a week I will give her either canned jack mackerel or canned salmon (one can is enough for two meals in one day), boiled white or brown rice, butternut squash (or another type of winter squash) or sweet potatoes, green beans (no salt added) and some type of greens - broc & caul mix - (frozen right now because of season; I don't feed this every day either) - mustard greens (chopped in can; they are already cooked), - chopped kale (chopped in a can) - spinach (in a can). I will usually give about 50-60% protein/meat, 25% veggie mix (I try to alternate this to give a broader range and make sure the greens outweigh the squash or sweet potato, 25% grains (I use white rice, brown rice, or quinoa). When I bake her chicken (I usually get a 3lb bag of frozen boneless skinless breasts) I put some olive oil in the pan and bake them from frozen for about an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes... I also split open the butternut squash or cut up some sweet potatoes and bake them in a separate pan with a little water at the same time as the chicken. I try to make enough to last 2 days, maybe three if I'm lucky...otherwise it goes bad too fast. You can definitely freeze it and thaw it in portions if you want to cook more at one time... I take some ground up egg shells and sprinkle them on top (about 1/4 tsp) for calcium and add ACV a couple of times a week. I have found that making a big batch of rice or quinoa is much easier and then I freeze it in portions that are easier to thaw every three days or so. I think I make rice or quinoa about once every 7-10 days now. MUCH EASIER!!! I also make her dried sweet potato treats! She loves them. THe only problem I am now having is keeping weight on her...I am now going to try bovine colostrum, Seacure, and raw pancreas (in pill form) to see if we can figure out what is causing her digestive issues & pancreatitis. Also digestive enzymes have always been a must have for her!!! Didn't know if you needed any help with the home-cooked recipes...if you have any ideas, etc...please post them I would love to hear how Loladog is doing since you started the home-cooking.

 

[a1r1ka]

I don't have much of an update, but here goes...

Papi threw up foam the other day and was disinterested in eating again...I got him to eat after a few minutes, but still, I was convinced we were headed for a bummer week. Well, we took him to the vet and got his levels retested and he came back with a 160, which is totally normal (problems occur above 200 or so...). The vet is a bit baffled as well, because his "bitchy eating" issues seem to be so spread out and he looks so healthy otherwise.

And remember when I said that I thought Papi probably shed a few pounds because we moved him to such a low-fat diet? Hahaha, not at all...he's the same weight, overweight, at 74 pounds. This is the same dog that was always, always skinny and gangly up until a year and a half ago when we got our second Boxer. So...

I have no idea if he's just a sensitive stomach Boxer, maybe has IBS, or if there's something else going on...the food combo of CN Low-Fat Chicken and Rice and canned Halo Chicken Soup seems to be working out (I know we need to get him more exercise, so the weight is our fault), so I guess if this non-eating business happens again, we might get him an ultrasound or biopsy?

 

[Loladog]

So far I've been a total failure with the home cooking. About two weeks ago Lola became ill again. Her Cortisone levels went too low from her Cushing's medication and she had elevated levels with a Spec cPL test indicating Pancreatitis. This was after having her on a very bland, home prepared diet for two weeks. I was signed up for a home prepared diet consultation with Monica Segal (monicasegal.com) because as I've discovered reading her books, she's very aware of what special needs dogs with Cushing's and/or Pancreatitis have. Well, when Lola started to have trouble two weeks ago (diarrhea, lack of appetite, other digestive issues), I decided to wean her onto the low-fat California Natural Chicken and Rice until I was able to get a balanced, home-prepared diet figured out. Immediately after adding in the California Natural and adding Prednisone again, her issues resolved and was doing great for about a week and a half. Her stools were firm, no gas and she was enjoying her meals. I got to the point of thinking maybe I should just stick with the California Natural with some fresh add-ins. I guess I thought this too soon because out of the blue, Lola started having diarrhea again yesterday. She even had an accident in the house while we were at work. I feel so bad and I'm at a loss as to what caused it. She seems to have slightly improved this evening so I'm going to keep a close eye on her.

It's so great to hear how well Zoey is doing on the home-prepared. Denaligirl, I really appreciate your tips and you are a true inspiration.

a1r1ka, has Papi been ok since his foam vomiting incident the other day? I completely understand your frustration in not knowing what causes their digestive upset. It's so strange when they are doing very well and all of the sudden they have diarrhea or vomiting. It seems like it has to be that what they're eating isn't agreeing with them but then why do they do well on other days? With Lola, I have to worry about whether it's her diet or an imbalance with her Cushing's medications. It's so hard not knowing exactly what is going on with them.

 

[Loladog]

Lola had another diarrhea episode in the house today while we were at work. We've had to clean the carpets twice this week. We dropped her off at the vet along w/ a fecal sample and they will be testing her for Giardia and other bacteria/parasites. Also, effective today we will be feeding her home-prepared only......no more California Natural. No more excuses for me, I have to get to work .

 

[DENALIGIRL]

Loladog – Poor baby she must not be feeling well at all. Remember with the bacterial issues/parasites they can go in cycles and the fecal exam could be good today but might not be good next week – if they don’t find anything then maybe have them re-check next week? Zoey had a diarrhea episode while on the home-cooked food sometime in February but it was just that once, we were completely baffled by that episode… So, with Cushings, what exactly is it; what were her symptoms? How did they diagnosis it? Sorry to ask such detailed questions but with me having a dog with GI issues at such a young age leads me to believe she has some sort of immune-mediated dysfunction.

a1r1ka – I know the feeling of “force” feeding; Zoey went through that same thing with her Pancreatitis so I sat down on the floor with her and hand fed her, the only way to get her to eat…reluctantly at that. Thankfully, since starting the home cooking, that has not been an issue. The only issue is now I can’t seem to feed her enough! She is RAVENOUS. I am now up to feeding her 2 cups at a sitting (reluctantly for me). She eats right away in the morning, then she gets a snack before I leave for work (about another ½ c to 1 c) and eats whatever we put in her kongs throughout the day (about another cup or more worth of food throughout 8 hours) and her evening meal and another cup at night around 9pm with her last antacid pills. I was not able to feed her this much before starting the Seacure. I have to say she is happy with her increased level of food as well, she seems "satisfied".

Loladog & a1r1ka –

After having her on this Seacure for a little over a week I have seen such an improvement in Zoey’s overall health, energy level, etc. Zoey was sleeping soooo much I was beginning to think she was in hibernation. Because of the pancreatitis issue, I thought adding the raw pancreas (pill form) would not hurt since after repeated pancreatic episodes there is much concern with developing EPI, etc. The thing with Seacure (did you try this in the past with Papi – a1r1ka?) is that it cannot hurt to try it, unless Lola or Papi have issues with fish. It is hydrolyzed so our dogs with severe GI issues that have trouble digesting food, etc. are better able to process it. Somewhere there is a link out there to Whole Dog Journal that discusses the benefits of Seacure. I suggest doing some research on it to see if either of you believe it might be of assistance with either of your babies issues. After doing my research, I could not see how it would hurt so I tried it and am very happy so far that I have…read my thread about “SEACURE” Lastly, Colostrum might not be right for dogs with milk protein issues or dairy issues but Zoey is getting that as well and seems to be benefiting from that too.

With all of this sharing amongst us three, I think I can sign off by my actual name rather than my moniker… I so enjoy sharing and bouncing ideas off of each other it helps to have a community to resource with.

Tina

 

[Loladog]

Hi Tina,

In response to your question regarding Cushing's Disease, it can either be related to a Pituitary tumor or Adrenal tumor (Lola has the Pituitary form). This causes the release of a hormone called ACTH which in turn causes the Adrenal glands to overproduce Cortisone. We obviously need Cortisone but in excess, it starts to wreck havoc on the body. The disease is a slow progressing condition. If left untreated, it will cause damage to the internal organs (heart, liver, kidney). I might not have this exactly right but it's a basic description. I'm also now part of a wonderful forum on k9cushings.com where you can find A LOT of information on the disease.

We didn't really notice Lola's symptoms at first because they'd been slowly popping up over the years. We took her in for a routine dental and the pre-anesthetic blood panel showed that her Lipase levels were through the roof indicating she had Pancreatitis. Further testing confirmed Pancreatitis but since she wasn't showing any symptoms, we had to find a cause. Pancreatitis can be associated w/ Cushing's because these dogs have trouble metabolizing fat. When the topic of Cushing's came up, we realized Lola was indeed showing other signs. She was having frequent skin infections which were previously misdiagnosed as ringworm. She was also losing a lot of hair and it wouldn't grow back. Her coat condition overall became very dull. Next, she was drinking a ton of water. Also, her appetite was out of control. She was constantly begging for food and she would raid the garbage if we forgot to put it outside. So more testing led to the diagnosis of Pituitary Cushing's Disease.

There are a couple of different types of treatments available for the disease. With the Adrenal form, surgery is always an option. With Pituitary, the medication choices are Lysodren and Trilostane. We chose Lysodren which breaks down the outer layer of the Adrenal gland therefore preventing the over-production of Cortisone. The tricky part is finding the right balance so as not to destroy too much of the outer layer of the Adrenal glands. If you destroy too much, you can put the dog into Addison's disease (where they don't produce enough Cortisone). When treating for Cushing's, you have to have Prednisone on hand so that you can replace some of the Cortisone right away if you take too much away. Lola is currently on Prednisone since her Cortisone levels were brought down too low w/ the Lysodren.

It's a very difficult disease especially with the Chronic Pancreatitis. Dog's with these issues need to be on a low-fat diet. Also, when issues such as diarrhea pop up, it's hard to know what exactly is causing it. Other things that came up when we started treating Lola were allergies and arthritis. She hadn't been showing symptoms of this until we took away the excess Cortisone. Now she has to be on medication for severe hip and lumbar spine arthritis. Also, her coat completely changed. It went from the short Boxer coat to a long, shaggy coat. Her coat is almost like a Chesapeake Bay Retriever now (thick and a little curly). Coat changes are common when you treat Cushing's dogs but it's so bizarre!

After being on a bland diet of Chicken and Rice for a few days now, Lola is feeling much better. Her fecal testing came back negative for Bacteria or Giardia but there was a high presence of yeast. The vet recommended we put her on Probiotics and she prescribed a 7 day course of Flagyl. Hopefully her issues were just diet related and taking out the commercial permanently will help (I hope!)

I'm going to look into the Seacure. I know I have the Whole Dog Journal about it around somewhere. It's really great to hear that things are turning around for Zoey. You are such a great mom!!!

 

[a1r1ka]

Oh LolaDog, I am so sorry your baby had a few bad weeks. Poor girl! I'm glad she's doing better now and I hope the home cooking works out. I swear, it's such a relief when they start eating, sleeping, and pooping normally again...I tend to go through emotional swings with my dog's health, so when he's sick, I am completely in the dumps.

Hey Tina, I have never heard of Seacure, but I will definitely look into it. Papi is always ok with fish and I am willing to try anything. The vet says add SAM-e (we are already doing Missing Link and non-smelly salmon oil and the occasional Pepcid), so I am going to add that as well.

Even though we've had a feeding or two met with some resistance, Papi seems to come around when we heat up some sliced turkey (the smell seems to kick his hunger into gear). The very reason we started using the Honest Kitchen was because we could force feed him easier with a "soup" than meat, but since switching away from that food (too high in fat), we have had fewer episodes...

I still don't know what to think about his stomach if it's not Pancreatitis, though...like I wonder if he has some kind of damage that links back to when he was a pup (when we first brought him home at 16 weeks old) and he had a terrible cough that meds couldn't seem to cure...turns out it was Mycoplasma and we needed a specific med, but you know, the steroids and testing meds at such a young age...I will always worry that he was harmed by that. Or maybe he's just "one of those Boxers" with a sensitive stomach...I dunno...