Pancreatitis Again...Food & Ideas?

[violetashlee]

Violetashlee, the vet gave me Royal Canin LF, too, and I just can't see giving that to my dog for long while...there has to be something better. We tried a few varieties of NB a while back and they never really agreed with Papi, but we never did venison. We did Innova a while back and he was always gassy. We also had Papi on Orijen before the Acana and his lipase levels were very, very high, too. Geez...you think you're doing the right thing by feeding a great food from a great company, but no dice. SO much research and I thought I found the right combo until now...

Its so frustrating. I finally gave up when I agreed to giving the RC LR. I was really conflicted about the RC, but it worked for her digestive issues. But her eyes look red all the time and yeast ear and paws. After one bag, I decided to try a "good" food again. Violet was eating NB Venison, so, I tried giving it Ivy in small meals. So far so good. I got a sample of Orijen at the pet store and I tried putting a little in Ivy's food, only 20ish ibbles gave her bloody diarrhea again! Take it away and it returns to normal.

We have the added complication of colitis too, so, I am trying to keep her diet really simple.

Ivy used to eat California Natural Lamb and rice and was kind of ok, but did have one pancreatitis attack. The LF version of it did not sit well with her at all.

The small meals make a huge difference for her though. If she eats more than 3/4 cup at a time, she tends to get loose stool and stomach problems.

Its hard to figure out, I hope you find the magic combination that helps him to feel better.

KEep us posted.

 

[a1r1ka]

I agree with maintaining a strict feeding schedule for any dog. We started feeding Papi several smalls meals (~4 a day) to combat his throwing up in the middle of the night...always bile or white foam. This is before we knew about the pancreatitis, so you're right, we have a steady routine in place and we just need to find the right food combo.

I think I will try Wellness Core Reduced Fat...highly recommended, lower fat, turkey-based, grainless...and you know, we got away from giving Papi yogurt (the Honest Kitchen and Acana/Orijen removed gas entirely, so we just stopped), but that has so much good bacteria in it, he will probably benefit. And we used to give Papi the Missing Link and even tried Sea Meal when he was younger...I think we should get back to something like that.

We'll see where we stand in a week!

 

[DENALIGIRL]

My recent experience with pancreatitis...

My Zoey is suffering through her first bout of "suspected" pancreatitis. We feed her a commercial raw diet called "Companion Natural Pet Food". Which I started to feed her at the age of 1 yr 6 mos as a result of loosely formed stools since the age of 4 months...and not one dry kibble food would eliminate this problem...but the raw did. Other background info...she has had chronic vaginitis since she was about 4 months as well. About 6 mos ago she refused to eat the beef version of this diet and we wound up giving her exclusively the chicken, duck, and turkey. I have always suspected some sort of problem with her stomach but finally on Christmas night she threw up from about 1am-5am and it was the type of vomiting that looked as if it hurt not just a reflux vomit. It was foamy bile. I thought she was having a "I haven't eaten in a little while type of vomit" but then it kept on and increased in intensity over the next 4 hours. This was followed by heavy panting, her body was trembling, and she appeared to be running a fever. Basically she just scared the living daylights out of me!! She was barely eating a few days before this episode and combined with the fact that we had just moved and she was suffering stress as a result of this move contributed to this episode. She had diarrhea to boot! After x-rays to rule out obstruction and CBC panel was run. Her pancreatic levels were too high too measure >1000 so they said it was pancreatitis. The vet prescribed Cerenia for the nausea and vomiting, pepcid AC to settle her inflamed tummy (15 mg in the AM & PM - she weighs 53 lbs) and metroniadazole (I stopped this after the first day - she seemed to get more diarrhea from this) and advised we put her on a bland fiber rich diet and cut out ALL fatty foods. She was getting whole milk yogurt, cottage cheese, and eggs in her diet as well. So we wound up feeding her rice or quinoa mixed with either boiled ground round or boiled chicken and mashed up canned green beans - no salt added, and a tablespoon of either pumpkin or some type of squash. I made butternut squash. I also decreased her portion size from 1-1/4 cups per sitting to only 3/4 cups for about two weeks. I am just now able to feed her just about 1 cup per feeding. She was doing that licking the air type stuff for a long time and I never knew what it was..until now - I was told this is a key sign a dog is in serious discomfort and NAUSEOUS. Which makes sense because it was at night or when her tummy seemed upset. I am not sure what route we are headed with this but the foods we have her on for right now seem to be helping. She HAS to eat so the vet did not take her off of food completely and because she was not dehydrated or no visible signs of shock were seen they opted for me to take her home and keep a close eye on her. All in all it has been a heck of an education for us! Please do not take these bouts with pancreatitis lightly - they can lead to more serious issues down the line. Or they can be a direct result of a much deeper issue. The Pepcid has been a lifesaver for her, we went one night without it and she vomited - she hadn't vomited throughout her entire recovery period until that time. So we will not run out of Pepcid again! I think she may have some sort of acid reflux that is contributing to her vomiting since she was a puppy. Sorry for posting such a long reply but I think sharing these episodes helps all of us learn a little more about what could be going on with our own dog. Also if it helps someone to be so "wordy" with an explanation then great! Everywhere I looked everyone was telling me what I could feed just not in what proportions. These are the proportions that are working for us - 1/4 c meat, 1/4 c rice or quinoa, 1/4 green beans and a tablespoon of canned pumpkin (100%) or squash every 3-4 hours (oh and don't forget the digestive enzymes!!!) and the last time I feed her will be at like 8:00pm. A later dinner seems to help her through the night. Since both DH and I work during the day we use an automatic Kongtime dispenser that spits out 4 kongs at different intervals in either a 4 or 8 hour period of time. I just put a 1/4 cup of stuff in each. She absolutely loves the squash!!!! I just baked it in the oven with water to sort of steam it and she loves it. Good luck and keep sharing!!!

 

[Carlton'sMom]

Thank you everyone!

Our guy was diagnosed with pancreatitis last night! These threads have been so helpful! We are starting him on rice and boiled chicken today. I'm trying to figure out what to give him as treats. Any ideas????? I was thinking about giving him some bananas but I'm not sure if that would be good or not. Also Im not sure when to start introducing his food back into his diet. Im actually thinking just keeping him on the rice and chicken. Our dogs are on wellness now, but I'm not sure what to do next! Any suggestions would be so helpful! Thanks!!!!

 

[gmacleod]

About 6 mos ago she refused to eat the beef version of this diet and we wound up giving her exclusively the chicken, duck, and turkey.

If your dog has pancreatitis, you might want to rethink the diet you're feeding a bit. For a raw diet, this one is really rather high in fat content - especially the chicken, duck and beef versions. Specifically, their respective fat contents - calculated by dry matter basis - are 24.9% (chicken), and a whopping 37.1% (duck) or 38.3% (beef). For the non-pancreatic dog, the chicken version isn't so bad... but I wouldn't consider feeding either the duck or beef to any dog that has ever had pancreatic problems (actually, I wouldn't feed it to any dog - that high fat content is a decent clue that the product quality is not high ).

If you really like the brand, then I would suggest that you stick with the turkey flavour (15.7% fat), possibly the fish (21% fat) - or else "water" it down with lean meat & offal added yourself. Personally though, I think I'd just look for a higher quality and less fatty food to feed. Particularly in the case of the beef and duck flavours, I do not find it a surprise that your dog has ended with pancreatitis if she was fed this stuff with great frequency.

Raw diets are a great thing But you still need to pay attention to what is used to make them when it is a commercially made diet you're buying. Or put another way, just because it is raw does not mean that manufacturers don't use the lowest quality rejects to make it (that is not the sole preserve of kibble manufacturers). The macronutrient breakdown of the food you've been feeding does not tend to indicate the use of good quality lean meat...

 

[DENALIGIRL]

If your dog has pancreatitis, you might want to rethink the diet you're feeding a bit. For a raw diet, this one is really rather high in fat content - especially the chicken, duck and beef versions. Specifically, their respective fat contents - calculated by dry matter basis - are 24.9% (chicken), and a whopping 37.1% (duck) or 38.3% (beef). For the non-pancreatic dog, the chicken version isn't so bad... but I wouldn't consider feeding either the duck or beef to any dog that has ever had pancreatic problems (actually, I wouldn't feed it to any dog - that high fat content is a decent clue that the product quality is not high ).

Thank you so much for your post. I guess I thought the fat content listed on their website was indicative of what it actually was and didn't realize there was s difference based on a "dry matter basis". WOW!!! Had I known the calculated fat based on dry matter, I definitely would have rethought the food. Are you familiar with this brand of food? The duck, chicken, and turkey don't seem that high in fat. The beef however did as it was a little greasy IMHO. I have regrets now that I was not a little more familiar with this. I may have caused this to begin with...how is fat calculated on a dry matter basis? One other thing...Is anyone familiar with a test that is sent exclusively to a lab in Texas, I believe Texas A&M to be exact, to test further for the exact level of pancreatitis & retest the original levels? It runs about $150-$200, as my vet is telling me. Not sure if this is necessary or if it's just running up my bill and then we have to test for something else???

 

[gmacleod]

Well, what they write isn't wrong... but it is for a fully hydrated food, things that are 65-70% water. To understand the protein, fat, carb, etc content, you have to remove water from the equation.

To help put that in context - if you were considering how nutritious soup was, you wouldn't count the water content, would you?

This also helps you to make a near-direct comparison with kibble, which is usually only about 10% water (not that kibble is any sort of standard to judge by, but it is something we're generally more familiar with).

In any case, once you take out the water content, the above figures are the true macronutrient breakdown of the foods you are feeding. Actually the chicken, fish and turkey aren't that bad - and close to what you'd expect from a "whole" chicken/fish/turkey. But since your dog has had a bout of pancreatitis, you probably need to be careful to try to keep the fat content of her food on the lower end of that.

Calculating protein/fat/carb (and everything else) content on dry matter basis is pretty simple: It is the nutrient percentage divided by the reciprocal of the moisture percent. Or put another way, the reciprocal of the moisture content is simply the percent of the food that isn't water.

To calculate it from the manufacturer's given percentages, first calculate the total dry matter in the food by subtracting the percentage moisture from 100 percent. For example, if a food is 75% moisture, it must be 25% dry matter (100 minus 75 is 25). Second, divide the listed macronutrient percentage by the dry matter percentage. If looking at protein, for example, and it's listed at 10 percent, you divide 10 percent by 25 percent to calculate the DM basis for protein (40 percent in this hypothetical case).

 

[Loladog]

Wow!!! It's amazing how many people here are going through similar situations with their poor dogs suffering from Pancreatitis. All of these posts have been extremely helpful.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that in the very beginning of Lola's diagnosis, I fed her Eagle Pack Holistic Select Senior Health and she did pretty good on it. I picked this food at the time because it was relatively low in fat but the protein was still moderate (26%). With a lot of the lower fat foods, the protein is also reduced which isn't good. The only reason I stopped with the Holistic Select is because I worried the fat % might still be slightly too high. On the bag it lists the fat % as 10% minimum. I e-mailed the company for the max or "as fed" % and it's actually 12.48%. Despite this, it's lower fat than a lot of foods so I might give it a try again and see how things look with Lola's next Spec cPL test (Pancreatic Lipase Levels). As I said in my previous post, I'm currently feeding Innova Large Breed Senior and it's still causing Lola to be VERY gassy.

With Papi, I really hope the Wellness Core Reduced Fat works out. If not, you can always try the Honest Kitchen Verve even though it's Beef based. You never know......right???

 

[a1r1ka]

Wow, I have heard this before with Papi...
"pancreatic levels were too high too measure >1000...vet prescribed Cerenia for the nausea and vomiting, pepcid AC to settle inflamed tummy and metroniadazole...licking the air type stuff for a long time and I never knew what it was until now..."

It's such a frustration when you think you are feeding your dog properly and are blind-sided with a health issue like this...we just feel so badly because they count on us to make good decisions for them. But this forum and the dog food review site (Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost) are amazing...I can't even explain how they've helped me over the years.

Thanks to the suggestions, tonight we started Papi on the Wellness Core Reduced Fat kibble plus some Halo Spot's Stew Wholesome Chicken for a side dish/treat and we'll see how it goes...he liked both a lot and I can only hope that since we've reduced his fat intake quite a bit with this switch (over the Acana Pacifica and Honest Kitchen Embark combo), that his body reacts well................cross your fingers for calm stomach, firm stools, no gas, clear eyes, yeast-free paws/ears, and a shiny coat!

 

[a1r1ka]

Is anyone familiar with a test that is sent exclusively to a lab in Texas, I believe Texas A&M to be exact, to test further for the exact level of pancreatitis & retest the original levels? It runs about $150-$200, as my vet is telling me. Not sure if this is necessary or if it's just running up my bill and then we have to test for something else???

I dunno...the last time this happened, they tested, we altered Papi's food and provided meds, and then they tested again...not sure where it went, but it was like $200 a pop. We're heading down that same path...we're getting him retested next week during the follow up, so another $200.


Carlton'sMom -- I don't know what treats to give in this situation, either, so I am just skipping them for now. We used to give Papi VeggieLife Apple and Chicken (just dried chicken wrapped around dried apples), but I am concerned they'll cause issues. If anyone has ideas for low fat, pancreatitis-safe treats, I am all ears as well.