Muzzle Puzzle

[SoleilBxrs]

It really gets to me how some people have these ridiculously high standards for what their dog SHOULD look like. I understand the requirements for being a show dog, etc, etc. But I'm just amazed at how people can sincerely say things like.."you should have been more cautious when choosing your breeder"...or "yes that muzzle is not standard so he must be mixed with another breed" or.."no thats not standard- its ugly". People like that are the reason why some of these "non-standard" or "ugly" dogs get dropped off at the pound. I mean I don't know about the rest of the world, but I buy my dogs to be members of the family-and to love and care for them.

I think when you are purchasing ANY specific breed of dog, you are entitled to it looking like that breed. I don't think the "you should have been more careful about choosing a breeder.." was not meant to be a , shame on you type remark, it is more in saying that BYB's should not be supported. Backyard breeders are the reason why there are so many boxers who though they may be pure bred, are so far off the boxer standard (blueprint), that they loose the qualities that make them look like a boxer. Obviously a show dog should look as close to standard as possible, but even a boxer not destined for the showring should still look like a boxer.

I don't believe anyone called any dog ugly, because truth be it, there are none. And if its any part boxer.. the better the dog is! :D (no matter what it looks like) I am pretty sure i speak for the majority when i say that we all have dogs to love and to be a part of our families. (yes, even show dogs are family first, show dog second.. ) Not to "make a buck off them" (if you are breeding responsibliy, there is no $$ to be made), not to be paraded as the latest fashion trend, or to look tough, or whatever other silly reasons there are out there to have a dog.

I'm sure I will get a lot of hateful replies for this post, but ya know..Who cares if your dogs muzzle isn't "standard?" As long as you love your dog (and arent just trying to make a buck off him)-why should it matter what other people think? My Tyson has an "abnormally" longer muzzle, but I couldn't care less. I don't know, thats just my oppinion.

no hateful replies.. just an honest oppinion.

-Kat

 

[courtney323]

Nikol -

What you are saying doesn't actually make much sense, but more importantly, it's irresponsible.

Nobody is bashing the original poster, and furthermore, I'm sure she has a wonderful little puppy and is providing a great home! She asked a question, and she got lots of great answers.

She even admits herself that her pup is a mixed breed (definitely has some Boxer it it, though).

<<I'm just amazed at how people can sincerely say things like.."you should have been more cautious when choosing your breeder"...or "yes that muzzle is not standard so he must be mixed with another breed" or.."no thats not standard- its ugly". People like that are the reason why some of these "non-standard" or "ugly" dogs get dropped off at the pound. I mean I don't know about the rest of the world, but I buy my dogs to be members of the family-and to love and care for them. >>

People should be VERY cautious when choosing their breeder. Boxers have A LOT of health issues that are purely genetic. If the PROPER health testing is done by the breeder, you can ensure that these genetic problems do not get passed on to the pups.

And, the reason so many dogs are at shelters in the USA is because TOO MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT "Back-yard breeders". Because of this, BYB's breed over and over and over again just to make a few bucks. Now the USA is full of Boxers that are either VERY poor quality, disease ridden, or both. Geez. What an irresponsible comment to make...

 

[gmacleod]

It really gets to me how some people have these ridiculously high standards for what their dog SHOULD look like... Who cares if your dogs muzzle isn't "standard?"

Well, that's one way to look at it, sure. And when it comes to an individual dog, then I think most people would agree with you. I don't love my boy Henri any less because he has ugly feet And there are a great many members here with non-standard boxers, dogs with long noses, and mixes too for that matter - and none of them love their dogs any less just because they don't look exactly how a boxer is supposed to.

But what is being discussed in most of these threads is *breeding*. And that is an entirely different matter. Breeding is about looks, temperament and health. The correct look and temperament for the breed, and the relevant health screening to try to ensure that some very nasty genetic diseases that are becoming prevalent in the breed are screened out to the extent possible. That is not a nazi attitude, it is responsible breeding. Who wants boxers to all drop dead at 2, 3, 4 or 5 years old? Nobody, I'd guess, but that's where the breed is heading unless things like aortic stenosis and cardiomyopathy are brought under control by responsible health screening practices on breeding dogs.

If you don't select breeding dogs for correct temperament, then how can anyone make an informed choice on what breed of dog is likely to suit them and their lifestyle? And if you don't breed for looks, then how long before each breed just looks the same, and is about the same size as the next one? Most people choose a dog breed because of lifestyle factors: the right size, temperament, coat length, energy level etc to suit their lifestyle, and the sorts of looks that they like. If breeders don't breed to preserve those things, then people are going to end up with unsuitable dogs, who in turn end up in shelters.

So you may think a long muzzle is really not a big deal. And you're right, as long as you're talking about one individual. What gets people who care about the breed upset though, is when that sort of deviation from the breed standard becomes commonplace. It is a sure sign that the person doing the breeding isn't aware of, or just doesn't care about how the breed is supposed to look. What makes you think they care about the correct temperament or health issues either?

 

[nikol0304]

Nikol -

What you are saying doesn't actually make much sense, but more importantly, it's irresponsible.

Geez. What an irresponsible comment to make...

First off- I'd like to know how you decided that "irresponsible" was the right word to describe the comment I made. How can an opinion be irresponsible? It can't be. I can see how a opinion could be formulated out of ignorance, but not out of irresponsibility. FYI- I care very much about my dogs health, background, etc. I didn't just walk into a room with a sign that said "Boxers-$350," pick one up and walk out.

Secondly- I know that if I was the originator of this thread I would have been offended by some of the judgemental comments that have been made about the situation. That's why I decided to state my opinion on the matter. Yes, I said OPINION. Everyone has one, and everyone is entitled to use it.

In conclusion I would like to thank the moderator and soleilbxrs for the informative and well-worded responses to my post- every word of which I highly agree with (breeding purposes.) I just believe that some people are so judgemental when it comes to this dog, that dog, and the next dog. If the dogs in good health, and its the perfect dog for you, then IMHO, that's all that should matter-not if "her dog has a better nose."

And that my friends, is all I was trying to point out.

 

[courtney323]

<<FYI- I care very much about my dogs health, background, etc. I didn't just walk into a room with a sign that said "Boxers-$350>>

Is this why you have asked questions about why your pup's nose is so long, and other posts wondering if your pup's breeders are "back-yard breeders"

When you say, "I'm just amazed at how people can sincerely say things like..you should have been more cautious when choosing your breeder"

I think it's irresponsible to dismiss the importance of choosing a great, reputable breeder. That is something that Boxerworld works very hard to promote. If you read through the appropriate forums, you will see some of the requirements for a good breeder, including OFA Certification for hips, heart, thyroid, etc.. Since you care so much about your dog's health & background, did you get copies of these test results when you picked up your pup from the breeder?

I'm guessing not. To have an opinion is fine - we all have them. But to defend or promote the lack of health testing or breeding to standard is another thing.

 

[nikol0304]

Is this why you have asked questions about why your pup's nose is so long, and other posts wondering if your pup's breeders are "back-yard breeders"

Since you care so much about your dog's health & background, did you get copies of these test results when you picked up your pup from the breeder?

I'm guessing not.

Now here is a prime example of idiocy. Basically you're saying that because I never received a copy of test results, and because I've asked questions about my dogs appearance - that I don't care about my dog.

Heh. You're not even worth talking to. But I guess that's what you can expect from someone who thinks that because they know more about something, they're a better person.

Never once did I say anything to promote the lack of health testing or breeding standard.

But I can tell you one thing. If I was presented with an award winning, "standard" boxer pup....or a sick, homeless, "non-standard" boxer pup. You'd better be damned sure I'm taking the sick, homeless one.

 

[courtney323]

But I can tell you one thing. If I was presented with an award winning, "standard" boxer pup....or a sick, homeless, "non-standard" boxer pup. You'd better be damned sure I'm taking the sick, homeless one.

And this is why I have 2 rescues

Laila's Mom -- Sorry that your thread turned into a different direction (I'll stop now)!

 

[gmacleod]

Now here is a prime example of idiocy. Basically you're saying that because I never received a copy of test results, and because I've asked questions about my dogs appearance - that I don't care about my dog.

Heh. You're not even worth talking to. But I guess that's what you can expect from someone who thinks that because they know more about something, they're a better person.

Actually, she's saying that it is likely that your dog was bred by a backyard breeder - who doesn't care about, or has little knowledge of the breed standard or health issues. It has nothing to do with whether or not *you* care for your dog, and nobody has suggested that you don't.

I think you should take the time to review the Rules for posting on this forum. Especially this part:

Discussion is welcome - flaming and personal attacks are not permitted. Members should not use the board to generate arguments. Arguments that get out of hand will be stopped by the moderators and members can be banned at any time by the moderators if there continues to be a problem.

Make another remark like the one above and you will be removed. We have a very nice community here, and that sort of rudeness and personal attack has no place in it.

 

[nikol0304]

Make another remark like the one above and you will be removed. We have a very nice community here, and that sort of rudeness and personal attack has no place in it.

I do apologize if my remark was taken as a personal attack or an insult. However, I was very offended by some of the things that were said to me. She was making judgemental comments about the way that I care for my dog, and I was simply trying to defend my point of view. It seems like there are a lot of big headed people around here..and to me that is just as insulting as a personal remark can be.

Again, I apologize.

 

[JulieM]

Some apology! :rolleyes:

The comments were not in the slightest way related to how you care for your dog; they were simply questions about the breeders and your screening of them. Why - and even how - you made the leap you did is completely beyond me.

Since this original question is several months old, has been adequately answered, and we've had an update from the OP, I'm closing this thread. Nothing productive can come of it at this point.