kicked out of doggie daycare-sorry long

[Ronin1]

I do not care how big the place or who recommends it, 80 dogs to 1 caregiver is TOTALLY unacceptable.
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Exactly. That kind of ratio is very scary. How can one individual (new or not) possibly watch each and every move of 80 dogs in one place? I don't know the lay out of this daycare, however throw in some tree's or other sight obstacles and it's a recipe for disaster. Does the other caregiver that KJ knows always watch the all the dogs by himself as well?

 

[Dublinsmom]

I have to agree with everyone else about the number of dogs to 1 person. I dont know about your daycare but ours has a seperate area for "quiet time" where a group of dogs that don't want to play can lounge about and individual "quiet time" areas where a dog can go if he is too wound up, anxious, etc. they are given a raw bone and allowed to relax. I cannot imagine the stress one shy dog would be under the pressure of 79 other dogs. I hope you can find a solution perhaps a smaller daycare would give hime a chance?

 

[bxrwiggles]

Thanks for all your feedback and support. You all at Boxerworld are great!

Wow! Can you possibly appeal the decision as this type of incident has never happended before (supposely unprovoked)? Possibly just a "probation" for the dogs involved? Did this new handler actually see this last incident happen?

The handler actually was going to bat for me. He loves both my boxers and said they were his favorites out of all the dogs in daycare. Who wouldn't love a boxer with their comical personalities. When I went to pick them up he walked me out to the car and told me about the incident. (The owner hadn't even bothered to call me nor did he call the following day.) The handler said he was going to try and talk to the owner to see if there was a way they could work with Jesse and change the situation. He told me to call him the next day. When I called him the owner came to the phone instead. He said that it wasn't an issue with Jesse going after the other dog (dogs are dogs and will get into fights) but it was a matter of the damage he did to the other dog and that he didn't have bite inhibition. So all of a sudden in 2 months he doesn't have bite inhibition??? I asked if that was something you could teach an adult dog and he said he didn't think so. I don't know enough about it to know if that's a true statement. Maybe Jesse's stress was on overload for whatever reason. Yes - the handler saw the actual bite happen right in front of him but may not have seen what led up to it. That's why I'm questioning the "unprovoked" statement.

 

[bxrwiggles]

Does the other caregiver that KJ knows always watch the all the dogs by himself as well?

Yes - the other caregiver who's been around since Jesse started attending 2 yrs. ago also watched all the dogs by himself. Dogs are put into timeout either if they are causing trouble or just plain over-excited.

Does anyone know about bite inhibition in dogs? If he truly didn't have bite inhibition wouldn't I be seeing a problem with him and my other female boxer Jazz or could it be that he's just familiar with her and doesn't feel stressed? He also plays well with my neighbor's two basset hounds, male and female. He met them shortly after I got him.

 

[billbgh]

It sounds like you got the boot because the owner of the facility is liable for being understaffed. If the "bitee"'s owner wanted to pursue legal action for damages and medical bills, it would come probably come back on the fac. owner for understaffing. There may be laws stating capacity, ratio limits,etc that they are aware of. I would keep an eye on Jesse, but it sounds as though he was acting in self defense.

Erin
Apollo & Rocky's mom

 

[bxrwiggles]

It sounds like you got the boot because the owner of the facility is liable for being understaffed. If the "bitee"'s owner wanted to pursue legal action for damages and medical bills, it would come probably come back on the fac. owner for understaffing. There may be laws stating capacity, ratio limits,etc that they are aware of. I would keep an eye on Jesse, but it sounds as though he was acting in self defense.

I agree. I may just look into whether there are any laws that govern doggy daycare not because I want the owner to get into trouble but because I don't want to see other dogs getting hurt or getting behavioral issues as a result. After all there are rules and ratios for skin kids daycare. It really hurt me to know that Jesse injured another boxer especially since I've met them. :( There are at least 8 boxers who attend this daycare.

 

[Ronin1]

I really don't think you're over-reacting to this situation/how it's being handled. The big question is that since KJ has been attending this place for so long, all of a sudden they assess that he has bite inhibition? From this last incident? Personally, I don't know if I'd take my dog back there with all that's going on/how they are treating you. It's kind of like they're all pointing the finger at you and telling you that KJ has a problem, even though it's never been an issue before. With all that's going on, you could consider talking to a behaviorist (for your own peace of mind only!) or possibly try to find a much smaller daycare where dogs don't get lost in the shuffle. I don't know enough about training to say that it is/isn't possible to teach bite inhibition, so perhaps someone else could answer that question more adequately? I would think however, that if KJ truly had an issue with this, you would probably have noticed it at home and while playing with dogs he knows, long before this

 

[BXRBESTFRIND]

Bite inhibition is something dogs are usually taught at a young age by their littermates and then by there human owners and continues throughout puppyhood.

Does anyone in your family play fight with him? If your dog had issues with a "hard mouth" you would know very fast.

Jazz would definetly have some scars/scabs when they play rough. Does Jazz ever "check" Jesse when they are playing- either by yelping or getting serious to the point the rough play stops?

Does Jesse destroy toys in record time?

"Hard mouth" in an adult dog should be fairly obvious. My friend had a similar issue at a dogpark otherr owners complaining his dog was trying to hurt their dogs(no blood was ever spilled). I reminded him if his dog wanted to inflict maximum damage he was equipped for it by his dog being vocal and pinning he was being rude but he was using restraint at the same time.
Without witnessing the incident its difficult to say if Jesse's reaction was completely unwarranted or if it was a warning that went to far.

And Lashing out while conered by a large dog like in his first incident should never happen. The point of paying someone to supervise is so those circumstances never have a chance to materialize. It sounds like this daycare has an issue with keeping a close eye on their dogs.

 

[bxrwiggles]

Does anyone in your family play fight with him? If your dog had issues with a "hard mouth" you would know very fast.

Yes, my husband does play fight with him on occasion. It's really more of a wrestle. Jesse has tried to nibble on him (we call it doing "niblets" like eating corn on the cob) and he's been very gentle. I've even felt his teeth once while he's been nibbling and it's been the same, very gentle. Although the nibbling has been pretty infrequent I've instructed my husband to stop playing when he does this.

Jazz would definetly have some scars/scabs when they play rough. Does Jazz ever "check" Jesse when they are playing- either by yelping or getting serious to the point the rough play stops?

I've heard Jazz yelp a few times when he's gotten carried away or over-stimulated but haven't noticed if he stops. When I've heard the yelp I've usually been in another room and have called his name to get him to settle. She's not the submissive type and is not afraid of him. In fact she's pretty good at keeping up with him. I haven't seen any bites or marks from him on her neck.

Does Jesse destroy toys in record time?

Definitely if the toys are the soft, furry kind with a squeaker inside. I usually try to get the harder rubber toys now. He's got a big mouth. Many big dogs, boxers especially though destroy toys quickly. Does that show that he has a hard mouth?

And Lashing out while conered by a large dog like in his first incident should never happen. The point of paying someone to supervise is so those circumstances never have a chance to materialize. It sounds like this daycare has an issue with keeping a close eye on their dogs.

My gut tells me that something definitely happened to him that afternoon that stressed him out. While the handler was telling me about the incident I noticed that Jesse was lying in his crate with such a stressed look on his face and he was panting heavily and it wasn't hot.

 

[Ronin1]

My gut tells me that something definitely happened to him that afternoon that stressed him out. While the handler was telling me about the incident I noticed that Jesse was lying in his crate with such a stressed look on his face and he was panting heavily and it wasn't hot.

I was wondering how things are going with the daycare/owner/handler?

Only you really know your dog and if you think something was "up", you are most likely right. My DH play wrestles with Ronin too, however Ronin is has a "soft" bite and never,ever uses his teeth with us. I think you're DH would most likely know (while wrestling) if Jesse reallly had no bite inhibition I hope that things are going well and that the daycare is treating you and Jesse with respect, rather than trying to save face because they truly were understaffed that day (and it sounds like it's a daily occurrence as well!)