IMPORTANT - poll for ALL members

Have you ever owned or known of a deaf boxer

  • Yes - it was white

    Votes: 157 18.6%
  • Yes - it was coloured

    Votes: 9 1.1%
  • No

    Votes: 677 80.3%

  • Total voters
    843
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

whiteone

Guest
How's eddie?
I can't tell u if everyone will agree but my whites were reg (AKC) not a limited reg. they were reg right along w/there sisters and brothers. Yes there are responible breeders that will request that u have them fixed. But I have always questioned why don't they have there parents fixed. why keep producing whites if infact thats not what they want???
I don't know that much about genetics and don't claim to but I do know that the offspring inherit the white coat gene from both the mother and father. This will always be left up to responible breeding.
so yes register away!!!!:)
 
W

whiteone

Guest
JulieM ? I do have a ? for you I think you are a breeder so I will ask you this question and I due respect your knowledge...
ok I just printed a copy of the code of ethics from the ABC and it states that (art 1 breeding) breeding only from heathly,sound,typey individuals who display good sound temperment and qualities, which are free of known disqualifying faults...
now with that my question is why do some breeders continue to breed dogs that give white pups(breeders who are members of the ABC). would this not be an infaction?
 
W

whiteone

Guest
ok I understand about flashy boxers but if they are to much flash they would not be standard. right? yes the parents due carry the gene. the gene is inherited. the increase of flash I would think would produce more whites but then again I question is wouldn't that be an infaction?
this is sooooo deep hahaha
have a great day thanks for responding, I love to gain as much information as I can, no need to waste a day without education....
Enjoy life ...
thanks
 
G

goldfishpal

Guest
Well I think breeding flashy dogs is to either: increase the amount of flashiness on offspring and/or increase the number of offspring that are flashy (vs. plain). You can breed a flashy dog with a plain dog and get flashy pups, but the ration of flashy pups in the litter will probably vary. Many people value the flashy coloring and I think this is why breeders aim for this. I think even at times judges are partial to flashy boxers vs. plains, although both meet the standard!
 
W

whiteone

Guest
I do remember a long time ago people used to say that the flashy's were more money and they were wanted more in the show ring.funny huh.. I think they are very pretty...
But I think they all are great...
have a great day thanks
 
G

goldfishpal

Guest
Yes, I love them all! Brindles, reverse brindles, fawns, and so on! I consider white boxers to be ALL FLASH! ;) :D
 

JulieM

Boxer Insane
So much to respond to.... this might be a bit disjointed, but that's about par for the course.

The ABC members did not "create" a breed standard in 1938, they simply revised the original one from Germany that had been in use in the US from the beginning. Herr Phillip Stockmann was very involved in this revision, by the way (he is the husband, of course, of Frau Stockmann, the Mother Of The Breed.)

This site has the various revisions of the standard from 1902/1904 on:
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/9666/Standard.html

Meta would not meet the standard today, no. Aside from her coloring, she is short of muzzle and longer than she is tall. I'm not sure what your point is here, the standard has evolved from that time and she did meet the standard at that time. The original standard did allow white coloration, that has never been disputed. And remember in the photos you're only seeing one side of the dog, they could very well have different coloration on the other side.

I'm not sure what you mean about my being non-responsive to the history from the ABC, in the first place I'm not sure how you can be responsive to history and in the second place I tend to think that the ABC history is going to be the most accurate history of the breed in the US, and since I've not seen a history from the other National Clubs around the world that contradict what the ABC has I feel it's probably correct.

I never put down other breeders, I don't know where you got that idea. I simply said that the fact that your white Boxers are on full registration tells me things about the breeder - that is a completely neutral statement. If you read negative things into it, they are you own conjecture.

Thanks for the clarification on Wagner's publishing date, I had thought 1936 originally but the quotes I was referring to on the ABC history page cited 1950 so that's the date I went with.

Nicki, the ABC Code of Ethic prohibits the registration or inclusion in the litter count a Boxer of any color not allowed by the standard. The BCC (Boxer Club of Canada) allows whites to be registered on a non-breeding contract (similar to AKC registration), because by Canadian law for a dog to be sold as purebred it *must* be able to be registered with the CKC.

About the Code of Ethics breeding stipulation - the only disqualifying coat is more than 1/3 white markings. Flashy Boxers do not carry this fault and so it is not an infraction to breed them. There are other considerations, of course, and I too am of the opinion that if you do not want to produce white puppies, you should not breed two flashy Boxers together. (Then again, there are many breeders who accept white Boxers and feel they are just as worthy of a life and loving home as their colored littermates, and so don't mind producing them.) The prohibition is not against breeding dogs that might produce a disqualifying fault, but against breeding dogs that have that fault. That is an important distinction.

There is no difference statistically between the number of flashy puppies in a litter when breeding two flashy parents or breeding one flashy and one plain - in both you would expect 50% flashy puppies. The difference lies in the other 50%. In a flashy x flashy breeding, there would be 25% plain and 25% white; in a flashy x plain breeding the 50% would be plain.

Flashy Boxers are in general more desirable in the ring, but that too is changing. And yes, Sarah, white Boxers *are* all flash, since white is really just an extreme marking pattern :)
 
E

Eddie's mom

Guest
Originally posted by JulieM

Nicki, the ABC Code of Ethic prohibits the registration or inclusion in the litter count a Boxer of any color not allowed by the standard. The BCC (Boxer Club of Canada) allows whites to be registered on a non-breeding contract (similar to AKC registration), because by Canadian law for a dog to be sold as purebred it *must* be able to be registered with the CKC.

:)

Thanks Julie! What would I do without you!:D I am very pleased with the answer too, its ok, and acceptable to have papers for a white boxer in Canada! YEAH!

o.k guys continue.............
 
W

whiteone

Guest
very interesting information, I will take time and try to educate myself on the genetics.
funny because my male white came from a brindle male and a flashy fawn, I always thought that was kinda different but maybe not so much now.

And my question now is if any breeders(dogs) produce a white pup, wouldn't that mean that they are carrying the gene and then to continue to breed them would that be an infraction?

under infactions it says..
The Boxer Standard defines the following diqualifications: "Boxers that are of any color other than fawn or brindle. Boxers with white markings exceeding one-third of the entire coat."

Also frau didn't even show her first boxer until 1910 the boxer had been around way before that,not taking anything away from her but it is a fact.The first Boxer club was form in Munich in 1895 and they drew up the first standard which much is used today, so Iam not sure we could say it was revised maybe added to? and shaped to make the standards useful to there needs at that time.
And as for breeders being put down I feel that my breeder was a very respondible person, she breeds for the people who want pets to love and spend a life time with, not to make money.
never the less thanks again for your response .
have a great afternoon.
 

JulieM

Boxer Insane
There's no reason a brindle and a fawn couldn't produce a white puppy, I'm sure it happens quite regularly. If you do a web search for Boxerhaven Boxers, under their Information and Opinions section there is a presentation on the genetics of white Boxers that should be helpful to you.

Again, the infraction is for breeding a dog that has a disqualifying fault, *not* for breeding a dog that has a chance of producing a disqualifying fault. If that were the case, the dogs that have a chance of producing a disqualifying fault would not be allowed to shown, either, since they would not be breeding stock and the purpose of a dog show is to evaluate breeding stock.

And yes, I realize that Boxers were around before Frau Stockmann got so involved; however she is widely credited with the preservation of the breed through the war, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Boxer in North America today (or, probably, much of the world) that does not trace back to her Von Dom kennels.

A revision simply means a change. Adding to or "shaping" the standard would be a change and thus, a revision.

I'm glad you're happy with your breeder. I'm still not sure where you get that I was putting her down, but that's really not my problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top