HELP! Our little girl is gonna be a first time mom!!

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lost1700

Boxer Booster
boxer said:
They've already jumped right in and just bred the poor animal. If they've done any health testing, confomational assessments, got a breeding mentor or even consulted a vet - well it's certainly not evident from what they've posted so far.

I completely agree, but unfortunately people aren't as informed as most members of this website, and in no way am I condoning or supporting what they have done. I also agree that they should be informed of the dangers and responsibilities that lie ahead. I also think that they should be given some help so their poor female and her litter have a better chance of making it through the birthing process and their life afterwards.

boxer said:
but maybe the next potential backyard breeder will read this thread, realise what the risks, realities and responsibilities of breeding actually are, and either rethink their actions or get themselves an appropriate education *before* proceeding.

Point well taken.
 
lost1700 said:
I also agree that they should be informed of the dangers and responsibilities that lie ahead. I also think that they should be given some help so their poor female and her litter have a better chance of making it through the birthing process and their life afterwards.
And the is exactly what people are doing. They are being informed of the dangers ahead and being given information to learn from as the time draws near. The possibility of their female dying during whelping or soon after is a very real threat. Mastitis and reabsorbtion are very real threats.

I once delivered a litter. The people had the bitch way too fat and the pups came early. These were first time breeders who had no idea what they were doing. They called me in a panic. Their bitch was very upset over the entire process and kept trying to run outside to dig the babies into a hole.

You have never seen anything so disgusting as a partially reabsorbed puppy being delivered in a pool of blood. Just a little head and 1 paw sticking out to even give us a hint as to just what "it" was.
 

lost1700

Boxer Booster
During my short time as a Boxerworld member, I have read many of your (PawPrintBoxers) posts and have learned alot from them. You by far know alot more about boxers than I do. I also don't know a lick about breeding, so in no way am I questioning your knowledge and experience.

PawPrintBoxers said:
And the is exactly what people are doing. They are being informed of the dangers ahead and being given information to learn from as the time draws near. The possibility of their female dying during whelping or soon after is a very real threat. Mastitis and reabsorbtion are very real threats.

Icluded with letting them know the real threats and possibilites of problems people could also include what they should do to try to avoid these problems to try to ensure for a more positive outcome. (In situations like this) I'm not saying educate the byb's that are thinking about breeding.

PawPrintBoxers said:
You have never seen anything so disgusting as a partially reabsorbed puppy being delivered in a pool of blood. Just a little head and 1 paw sticking out to even give us a hint as to just what "it" was. [/b]

Luckily I will never have to endure something like that, my pup is fixing to be neutered. :)
 
lost1700 said:
Included with letting them know the real threats and possibilites of problems people could also include what they should do to try to avoid these problems to try to ensure for a more positive outcome.
Awww but you see, many of these life threatening situations CAN'T be prevented! There are many many ill fates that await those that breed with Mother Nature having the final say. There is no magic wand to touch and make it all okay. The risks that are being mentioned happen all the time and only the most knowledgable can work with them. NOT prevent them.

The only 100% guaranteed way to prevent losing your bitch in whelp is to not breed her.

The only 100% guaranteed way to prevent losing puppies in whelp is to not breed her.

The only 100% guaranteed way to prevent losing your saving account during whelp is to not breed her.

The only 100% guaranteed way to prevent your children seeing the horrors of a dying momma or dead puppies is to not breed her.

Reality bites and Mother Nature is cruel. THESE are the things a breeder has to understand and work with. Fear and worry should always be part of your mind set when you do that breeding. Finances be damned and hope the kids don't need new braces. Also, you put your entire life on hold for 2 months if the pups survive the whelp.

Think of it as teenage pregnancy. The only 100% sure way not to get pregnant is to abstain. The only 100% sure way to not get AIDS or an STD is to abstain. Everytime you don't abstain, you put yourself at risk. It is the same thing with breeding. Everytime you breed, you put your female at risk. You put her puppies at risk. And you put your bank account at risk.

I hate to keep mentioning money, but I get the feeling that is the only thing people care about sometimes :(
 

lost1700

Boxer Booster
Nothing is 100% ever, in anything. Like I said, I am on the same level as everyone on Boxerworld pertaining to breeding. I was just scratched the wrong way, and my perception of some people's "help" seemed more like a lecture.

Hopefully I am on good terms with everyone, I was just arguing a view and meant nothing personal to anyone.

No more posts on this thread for me.
 

JulieM

Boxer Insane
One more from me, a reminder from the rules:

express your concerns to the moderators, not to the member whose behavior seems inappropriate to you and never to the entire board.

Every time a post comes up with something someone thinks is "harsh" or "negative" (totally subjective terms, incidentally, which 99% of the time have nothing to do with the words actually written), the thread takes off an a wild tangent about the tone of posts, instead of the actual subject matter at hand. Which is far *less* helpful to the OP than information about the complications that can occur. If you think someone is being "mean", either contact a moderator or take it up with them privately - don't hijack a thread for it when you have no actual advice to give yourself. (Speaking in general terms here and of no one in particular.)
 

kassa

Boxer Insane
Awww but you see, many of these life threatening situations CAN'T be prevented! There are many many ill fates that await those that breed with Mother Nature having the final say. There is no magic wand to touch and make it all okay. The risks that are being mentioned happen all the time and only the most knowledgable can work with them. NOT prevent them.​

As Christina points out, as nice as it would be to tell people what to do to prevent the tragedies, it can't be done in a 6 paragraph internet post, or even a textbook of dog midwifery (there are several. I found them virtually useless with my orphans. Good on the mechanics of pregnancy and delivery, not much help in what the hell do you do when tragedy strikes).

Probably the best one can do in THIS environment is to drive home that if you don't know the length of gestation of the animal you've just bred, you haven't even BEGUN to know the extent of the problems you may have to deal with suddenly.

How do you deal with emergencies? First you have to recognize what's "normal." Textbooks will help to a certain extent. But a lot of times the textbook advice is "call your vet and discuss." Unless you know what's pertinent and what's not to mention to your vet, he/she may miss a vital clue. Unless you know what's normal/what's not, you may not call the vet at all, or call too late.

Next it helps to have expert advisers. And that means people who will rush to your home to spend the night when the bitch gets close, or take your call at work to tell you what that color mucus probably means, etc. Such a person will know that your vet's well intentioned suggestion that the bitch be spayed immediately post whelping is likely to kill her, and no sensible vet would do any such thing (but they do anyway, and often).

That's not vet bashing -- but most vets don't deliver all that many puppies, and they're working from their own textbook reading, and not practical experience. I got some xeroxed pages about dietary supplementation and the assurance that it was okay if most of them died, because that was nature's way. Breeders told me there was no reason they couldn't all make it, and the best way to ensure that they did. Some came to my house with older bitches of their own, in hopes that these good dams would take to the orphan pups and at least clean and nurture them if they couldn't feed them. It didn't work, but I sure appreciated the way they went above and beyond to try.

A support network of knowledgeable people is critical when you don't have the experience under your belt.

As for Mother Nature, even in human beings, women deliver alone in log cabins or in the back of taxi cabs and do just fine. They also die from strokes and hemorrhage in million dollar birthing suites in top hospitals with a half dozen highly trained OB-GYNs within arm's reach.
 
After Affects

After affects. Okay, so that irresponsible person said "To heck with you all" and bred their female. They don't care what you have to say about it. This is a free country and they can do as they please. yadda yadda yadda

So those pups go to homes. One comes down with Demo.Mange. It has a compromised immune system and needs dips and constant vet care to keep it healthy. Poor thing is uncomfortable, sick and his owners are having to spend lots of $$. Or perhaps, they don't spend the money. Let the youngster progress to a staph infection, etc. With mounting vet bills and a sick dog, they turn them over to Boxer Rescue and claim "we should have known better and bought from a responsible breeder".

Trouble is, they are not a responsible owner. And they bought from an irresponsible breeder that is either unable to help them or refuses to help them.

Another pet goes to a home that has 2 toddler children and momma is pregnant with #3. Momma has heard Boxers are good with kids and so she wants one. She has never had a Boxer nor even known a Boxer. Six months later she has a large, adolescent Boxer who is knocking down her young kids, grabbing their clothes to play. She is about to give birth so can't really give any time to train the young Boxer. Hubby is working long hours to support his growing family so he can't help. They start locking the young Boxer outside in the cold. The Boxer becomes distressed and either runs away or gets destructive. The people cry out: "I should have known better and not brought a puppy into your home just yet".

Trouble is, they did not think their decision past "cute puppy" and thusly are not a responsible owner. And they bought from an irresponsible breeder who did not interview them and explain that waiting would have been a better option for all involved.

Yet a 3rd Boxer pup is given to a friend. Since the breeder had no following, and all the homes that promised they would LOVE to have a puppy disappeared into a puff of smoke, they are forced to grab whatever home they can get. The pup is getting older and starting to cost them money. Not to mention is pooping all over the place. So they give the pup away. Free to good home. First person that calls gets the pup. YAY for the breeder. This person has the Boxer for a year or so, and then starts dating someone seriously. They get engaged. They buy a beautiful new house with white carpeting. The new hubby does not want a "dog" in his house and the new wife has always kind of figured this was a freebie dog. Good to have kept her company until she had a true relationship and now she is not nearly as attached. She takes the pup to Boxer Rescue extolling the virtues of this awesome dog but saying someone else will have to spend more time with him.

Trouble is, she was not a long time committed responsible home. Pets are not expendable. And the breeder won't take the dog back.

I could go on and on. Having been around Rescue for so many years, I could fill a book with the excuses. The sick dogs dumped on Rescue because the people got a cheap dog and can't afford the vet care. Vet care that is worse because the dog has health issues that started way too young. And from that one-time breeder who had no clue what they were doing and refuse to take back their "pups" now they are older and not sellable.

I get so many phone calls from people that need advice on their new young pup. I will always ask: "Why are you not calling your breeder?". 9 times out 10 I am told: "They are not real breeders and really don't know anything" or "I knew it was a bad situation but I just wanted to Rescue the puppy".

One person had a 6 month old they wanted to turn over to Rescue. I asked them if they had not called the breeder? They said they could not even find their phone #. They could not remember the breeder's name. Can you imagine what little an impact that breeder made on these people and what little amount of time they must have spent with them just 4 short months ago?
 
The original post to this thread was on July 8th, I was just wondering if anyone knew how this whole process came out? I mean surely the pups have been born by now and the OP has not gave an update on how the pregnancy and whelp went. I would be curious and I am sure everyone else would love to know how the mom and babies are doing. If the OP is still on BW I would love to have an update. Hopefully everything went well, I have never, ever in my whole life raised a litter of pups, I don't consider myself strong and competent in the breeding department enough to handle such a responsibility, my animals have all been spayed and neutered before their first heats. I sure hope that the OP got the info that they needed and they still have their beloved pet and that the pups got really good forever homes, after all that is the best we can wish for at this point.
 
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