HELP! Our little girl is gonna be a first time mom!!

[msteinkamp]

I hope that you have found yourselves a mentor, (a seasoned show breeder) that can be there w/ you to guide you through the whelp, and help you incase of an emergency. best of luck to the mom and the pups. As JulieM said, it would definately help if you listed what research you did, and what health tests you did so we can atleast get a better picture, and not have to assume things. good luck

-Kat

Thanks for good luck wish Kat, and yes we do have a mentor lined up, as well as the previous owner (just in case). We are keeping record of everything, and trying to take in as much knowlege as we can. We didnt want to wait any longer to try to have her bred, she is a bit older...but, we were assured she was quite healthy enough to go thru the process by our vet. We have had numerous tests run and shots and all precautions have been met. We are praying to have healthy pups and a healthy mom, and a wonderful lifechanging experience along the way.
Thanks so much,
Misty

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

Why do you feel the need to add so much negative to people having puppies. Yes, things happen sometimes...but this is a wonderful thing to experience in most cases. Wish her the best of luck instead of telling her her boxer is likely to die, or have serious complications.

Because there are negative issues with your DOG having puppies. The people are not having the puppies, your sweet trusting dog is the one at risk.

Trusting this to "luck" is irresponsible at best. Luck comes along after you have exhausted all possible issues and now the rest truly is up to Mother Nature.

No, things do not just happen "sometimes". Bad things happen more times than naught. And especially with inexperienced breeders, not to mention breeding untested dogs. Death is a very common occurance when breeding animals.

Unless you wish to bury your head completely in the sand and refuse to listen to sage advice, your dog will have to pay for your choices.

This is simply reality. Sugar coating it and being in denial won't make if you lose puppies or lost the mother due to complications. Not to mention the mortage payment because you had excessive vet bills due to those complications.

 

[msteinkamp]

I am so sorry for your negativity

Trusting this to "luck" is irresponsible at best. Luck comes along after you have exhausted all possible issues and now the rest truly is up to Mother Nature.

No, things do not just happen "sometimes". Bad things happen more times than naught. And especially with inexperienced breeders, not to mention breeding untested dogs. Death is a very common occurance when breeding animals.

This is truly sad, that you have to take away someone elses "wish for good luck" and turn it into a negative too. And, I dont believe in leaving things to "mother nature", I believe in prayer. I have seen many dogs have litters (not boxers) and never once seen the bitch die during whelp. Of all the friends and family who have BOXERS, none of the bitches died during whelping. I am not going to fall down at my knees and take everything you say as gospel because you show dogs....but I do however, feel very sorry for you and your children (if you have any) because you are only able to see the negative in people's situations. It is so very sad, and I am truly sorry for you and all the terrible things you must have had to experience with your animals to feel this way.

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

I have seen many dogs have litters (not boxers) and never once seen the bitch die during whelp.

And I know of many Boxer breeders who HAVE lost their females either in whelp or soon afterwards.

So, knowing this is a real threat and something someone should always understand as just one of many many risks during breeding, why would you not want to understand it all?

Prayer won't save a bitch whose uterus has ruptured during whelp. Quick medical advice and alot of cash may save her. Or it may not.

Prayer won't save a puppy born dead and partially reabsorbed. Nor will it save a pup that is born dead because it was separated from its placenta. Nor will it save a pup who aspirated before delivery and drowned in its own sac.

Prayer won't save a momma from needing a C-Section. So you would just pray over her as puppies die inside and she is lost to toxic shock?

There are so many life threatening risks to whelping, not to mention breeding. What is sad is that you seem to want to no hear any of it. Who is that Responsible??

My words come from Truth and trying to be as Responsible as I can. Not from encouraging breeding and assuring all that nothing bad will happen.

 

[haleyandmark]

i don't think that this dog should be having pups at her age without proper knowledge and possibly proper testing, but she is pregnant and due any day now. as Boxer lovers and professionals trying to better the breed itself, i think that instead of the negative comments, we should focus on trying to help 'jbtorliatt' get through the birthing process.

negative comments aren't going to change what happenned. i wouldn't go as far as to say "assuming she gets through the whelping process" or "i feel sorry for you and your children".

i just think we should save the negativity at length and instead of turning this into a 'why not to breed' post, it should be coaching an inexperienced breeder post...don't get me wrong, i am not agreeing with the original poster, but i say in situations like this, it is time to put your experience into the hands of the inexperienced to help them, rather than to tell them what they did wrong. i think that instead of worrying about what they did wrong, they should worry about getting the puppies and the mom out healthy.

good luck, jbtorliatt. but for future references, i do suggest you do a boxerworld search on breeding (it is a very sensitive subject because people love the breed so much) or read 'Sabine-an ordeal' in the Choosing your breeder forum. again though, i wish you my luck

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

i don't think that this dog should be having pups at her age without proper knowledge and possibly proper testing, but she is pregnant and due any day now. as Boxer lovers and professionals trying to better the breed itself, i think that instead of the negative comments, we should focus on trying to help 'jbtorliatt' get through the birthing process.

Unfortunately, Death is a very real part of the whelping process. It happens all the time and really is something the breeder should understand.

At this point, they need to be given all the risks and warnings possible if they want to save their momma dog and possibly her puppies. The risks are great and will come from all directions.

It would be irresponsible for me or anyone else to sugar coat it and say "Don't worry, let nature take its course". In case no one has noticed it from reading this forum, Mother Nature can be very cruel. She does not care who she hurts or who she takes. So a responsible breeder will do all in their power to listen to those with the knowledge and prepare themselves the best they can.

Most people here are not breeders. They are Boxer lovers and issuing good thoughts. Of course they are needed. But truth and responsibility are also needed. Remember, we are talking about bringing new life into the world. And hoping to keep the life we have right now. Until you have done the entire process, you will never truly understand it all. The joy and the heartache. Both are great.

Best advice since the poster obviously does not have any type of a mentor, work with your vet. Make sure they are on call 24/7 for emergencies. And take your girl to them at the sign of ANYTHING strange. Anything at all. Take not chances either with her or the pups.

 

[haleyandmark]

i totally understand that death is a real part of the whelping process - my mom was involved in the show ring and the breeding of borzoi's (russian wolf hounds). she worked alongside of a professional and they ran something called Chataqua Borzoi (i think that is what it is called). she lost some puppies (i've heard a couple of stories) when she did everything as perfect as possible, although she was lucky to never lose a female.

"Best advice since the poster obviously does not have any type of a mentor, work with your vet. Make sure they are on call 24/7 for emergencies. And take your girl to them at the sign of ANYTHING strange. Anything at all. Take not chances either with her or the pups."
- that is the good advice i am talking about giving. thats the kind of advice that she needs to get her through this process. i can imagine how hard it is and i know from my moms experience how much work it takes, and a lot of people don't realize that until it actually comes; i can remember my mom staying up until the wee hours of the morning or not sleeping for days while worried about her female having her puppies.


all i'm really saying is that telling her how she may not get through the process isn't going to help her. instead i think that you should post about HOW to get through the process and sending her your best wishes, although yes mother nature unfortunately doesn't care who she takes, i think we should still wish for the best, regarding the unborn puppies and their mom. the reason i say 'you' is because i have seen your posts and been to your website and have come to see that you are extremely knowledgable when it comes to breeding, and i think you should use your knowledge to the full extent.

please don't take anything i say the wrong way, i mean it in the best way possible, but i know if i were in her situation (asia is spayed, theres nothing to worry about), i would an expert to help coach me instead of tell me what i have done wrong.

 

[kassa]

I'll step forward as one of the people who HAS lost a very beloved bitch in a c-section delivery. (She had one pup naturally, then stopped. A c-section delivered 8 other living pups).

The loss, and rearing pups while reeling from that loss was a living hell, and one that I wasn't prepared for at all emotionally. However, I WAS prepared intellectually.

God help those who don't have at least that much preparation to fall back on.

If people are offended by the tone of the responses they sometimes get in reply to their questions, please consider that sometimes the questions asked are the equivalent of a 12-13 year old girl going into a fertility newsgroup and asking when the best times are to get pregnant, or when they should expect their baby -- is it 8 months after their missed period or 9 months?

The response is unlikely to be simply the requested information, but the overriding information that the person is in over her head, especially if asking the questions AFTER the fact.

Breeding IS a life and death matter for the dam and the puppies (even, occasionally, for the stud dog). It can lead to financial wreckage on the part of the breeder (large c-section bill and a pair of sickly puppies?) And the "miracle of birth" can be quite horrific as partially formed/mummified etc. puppies are delivered. Or the dam eats a puppy. Or part of one. Or tears the umbilical cord too close to the puppy's belly and its intestines fall out.

All of the above have happened to people we know personally. They are not old wives' tales. They are not scary campfire tales. They're the hard, ugly side of breeding that Animal Planet glosses over.

And without appreciating their possibilities, you can't possibly breed responsibly.

 

[lost1700]

If people are offended by the tone of the responses they sometimes get in reply to their questions, please consider that sometimes the questions asked are the equivalent of a 12-13 year old girl going into a fertility newsgroup and asking when the best times are to get pregnant, or when they should expect their baby -- is it 8 months after their missed period or 9 months?

Yes, some of the questions are deffinately coming from the uninformed. But some of the responses to the questions come off like (hypothetical situation):

Waiting untill your 15 year old son has contracted a venerial disease and his 14 year old girlfriend is 5 months pregnant to scare him about the dangers of sex and the risks involved.

Kinda get what I am saying?

Just want to clarify that I am not approving the actions of this person nor the irresponisble and unethical breeding practiced by many people.

I agree 100% with the views that all of you share about breeding.

 

[boxer]

Yes, some of the questions are deffinately coming from the uninformed. But some of the responses to the questions come off like (hypothetical situation): Waiting untill your 15 year old son has contracted a venerial disease and his 14 year old girlfriend is 5 months pregnant to scare him about the dangers of sex and the risks involved.

Kinda get what I am saying?

Um yeah, but in this particular case the 'venereal disease and pregnant girlfriend' scenario has already happened. Msteinkamp isn't seeking information or opinions about what is involved in responsibly breeding their bitch, or what they should be educating themselves on before making such a decision. They've already jumped right in and just bred the poor animal. If they've done any health testing, confomational assessments, got a breeding mentor or even consulted a vet - well it's certainly not evident from what they've posted so far.

It may seem pointless to be telling them what an incredibly irresponsible thing they appear to have done, and what risks they have just taken on in respect of their bitch's health/wellbeing - but maybe the next potential backyard breeder will read this thread, realise what the risks, realities and responsibilities of breeding actually are, and either rethink their actions or get themselves an appropriate education *before* proceeding.