Don't kick me off the board for this....

[Cindy and Lacie.]

I wont crop, but that is just me. The thing that really gets me is that......... our pets have NO say in the matter. SO please dont compare a humane who CHOOSES to have plastic surgery to a dog that really has NO SAY in the matter of ear cropping or docking of tails. I have many friends who prefer to have cropped ears, I dont and cant think any less of them for the choices they make. Also, I think their is many things worse......did you read my post about the man who burried the 9 pups alive, or see on t.v. the cat burned alive, or the cats and dogs drowned........ I could go on and on and on. We are all friends here and I respect each of you.

------------------
Cindy Corl
Lacie female, brindle, natural ears,7-17-99

 

[beandawgs]

I recently read an article on AOL's boxer board about tail docking and apparently there was some research done on it - and the docking might affect the spinal nerves and elimination responses. It *may* (and this poster was certain to say this is just a growing field of research it has not been completely proved) affect the nerves which also affect elimination causing the dog to become incontinent in later life. Something to think about. Its a hard decision as I think boxers with natural tails look weird but thats probably because I'm not used to it. I have a white boxer boy whom i'm fostering right now with natural ears and I love his ears! I wish my boy had natural ears but since he is a rescue I had no say in that matter. I'm always folding his ears down to see what he would have looked like au naturel. (and no his ears are long since cropped when I fold them it doesn't hurt his crop).

------------------
Margaret mom to:
Alec, 1.5 year old flashy fawn male boxer
Sassy, 6 year old blind female boston terrier
Yogi, 1.5 year old male boston terrier
Mia, 1 year old female boston terrier

 

[Elsa]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindy and Lacie:
SO please dont compare a humane who CHOOSES to have plastic surgery to a dog that really has NO SAY in the matter of ear cropping or docking of.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the comparison Jennifer made about circumcision and ear cropping has to do with the subject having a choice; everyone who says animals don't have a choice should think about how babies don't have a choice in circumcision; a totally uneccesary procedure done for aesthetics ONLY. I am 100% with Jennifer in my OPINION. And that's all it is; an opinion.



------------------
-Elsa

Ruby- Flashy Fawn, Black Mask,Cropped, 5/1998

 

[Alisha Mobley]

My 3 Boxers have cropped ears. My male was done when I purchased him and my females were my choice. I must admit it was a long thought out process before I decided to crop Pru (my first female). When I brought her home the next day after her ear crop and saw that she didn't act like she was in any pain other than the whimpers when she would scratch and she acted normal other than shaking her head because of the sticks and tape I didn't think it was too much of a big deal. After the first day or two she was home she was completely herself again. No whimpers when scratching and no head shaking. She was playful and had lots of energy from the first day she came home. When we put a deposit down on Sheeba at 2 weeks I called the vet to get her ear cropping appointment. She was much better with it than Pru. She shook her head off and on for a couple of hours and by the next day would scratch her ears without pain. Both Pru and Sheeba were taped up for 10 days only. After the stitches and tape were removed by the vet they were done. It seemed to be a very simple process and I never felt my pups were in any danger because of it. I didn't feel I did anything worse to them than my son when he was circumcised before he came home from the hospital.

I feel there is a very good chance ear cropping will not be allowed sometime in the near future. I could care less if it is or not. If the law does change I will learn how to train natural ears to lay properly. If it doesn't I will continue to crop. I know I only cropped my dogs ears because of looks so the law changing wouldn't be a big deal for me.

I feel that tail docking is in good interest for the dog. I think this should be done to prevent future tail trauma and unnecessary pain for the dog later on. I never had very strong feelings about this until I did some research about it and saw what can happen if this is not done. I have not witnessed this being done yet but would think people saying the pup doesn't feel it is not true. They have to feel it to some extent. From what I have read a pups nervous system is not fully developed at 2-3 days and the pain is very minimal. I do believe the pain from tail docking at 2-3 days is far less than tail removal in an adult. I would think tail docking is far less painful than spay/neuter that is done. I agree spay/neuter is a good thing but if we're talking about unnecessary pain I feel this would fall into that category. An unaltered dog can live it's entire life and not breed if the owner keeps a close eye on the dog. I know the risk of cancer is higher for unaltered dogs but the risk of tail rupture/damage is much higher if the dog was not docked. If tail docking shouldn't be done then spay/neuter shouldn't either. But I strongly recommend both.

Linda, just wondering but I always thought monkeys used their tails for balance.

------------------
Tyson - brindle male, cropped ears (6/18/98)
Prudence - brindle female, cropped ears (8/29/99)
Sheeba - fawn female, cropped ears (1/17/00)
Alisha - Indiana

 

[crabby69]

I have read that the U.S. is one of the few countries left that even allows ear cropping. I watched a dog show put on by the British Kennel Club on Animal Planet and saw a beautiful little uncropped boy take Best in Group. It's is time for the AKC to respect the genetics of this dog when determining the 'breed standard'. We based our decision not to crop purely on cosmetic reasoning. (is that backward thinking?) I like the 'puppy look' they retain when they are left natural.

To Lava Linda, I'm surprised that you are not afraid to admit that you work in animal research. A lot of people are against it. Maybe they don't realize that we use research to learn how to improve the quality of life not only for animals but for humans as well. I have read posts here about the manufacture of conjugated estrogens, etc. but no one brings up the fact that if it weren't for animal research, people would still be dying every day from diseases like diabetes which we have learned to control first with insulin harvested from animals and eventually figuring out how to make a synthetic substitute.

But I am getting a little off the subject. I am glad I didn't have to make the decision about docking. Clio was done before we saw her the first time. I have had dogs with long tails and while they ARE good for dusting off the coffee table, they can be brutal weapons!

Leta
Mother to Clio, flashy fawn, natural eared female with sox.

 

[ElizabethH]

We were given Junior at age 2.5 and his ears were already cropped so he could be showed. I think that he looks so handsome however, I have seen so many poorly done ears (not just boxers) that it makes me sad. It is amazing the expressions that come from his ears. He flattens them when he is mad, turns and lifts them depending on sounds. It is almost like he is communicating via his ears!

------------------
Junior- 3 yr old Male Fawn, Cropped ears, Full black muzzle, loves to wiggle

 

[LPratt]

Wow...

And I thought I was the only rabble rouser, bringing up the sensitive topics !

I am very sorry, but I don't prefer Boxers that are not docked, my dog is docked and he does not seem to harbor any residual issues from this event.

I didn't crop his ears because:

A)I was afraid that they wouldn't be perfect, and then he would look silly
B)He is my pet, never to be shown or bred so who cares?
C)I am a big fat chicken and watched my breeder stretch his brothers ears while he cried and squirmed and thought, "Oh hell with that!"

While I am sure they are not dancing in the street to be subjected to this kind of elective surgery. I feel like there are so many sad Boxer lives to save that picking a fight with someone who loves their dog and wants to cosmetically alter it's appearance to adhere to the breed standard is last on my list...

But I understand your point

Leezah & Angus

 

[Lava Linda]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alisha Mobley:

Linda, just wondering but I always thought monkeys used their tails for balance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alisha,
The monkeys we have are terrestrial (rhesus monkeys), and their tails may help them balance somewhat. But these guys have little half-length, non-prehensile tails that unfortunately make perfect handles. (The mothers tug on them to keep the babies nearby. Awfully cute...)

To everyone else,
I was away from my email until today, and it was with much trepidation that I checked the board. Well.....I would have to say, everything I've ever thought or said about this board is true. You are a group of thoughtful, insightful, intelligent people, and I commend you on all your different points of view.

I realize that the term "mutilation" is too strong, but it's a word that's been hurled at me for lesser "crimes".
Yes, I had my sons circumcised, and would do it again, so I certainly respect everyone's right to dock/crop. The otherwise wonderful lives your dogs lead will more than make up for it.
So, thanks for all your diverse opinions. I agree there are much worse problems facing pets today, but I had to get this topic off my mind.
Thanks also for not attacking me for my occupation. The monkeys mean almost as much to me as my dogs do, and sometimes the job isn't easy. I just figure if I'm here doing the job, at least I know it'll be done with as much compassion and care as possible.
-Linda

------------------
Linda, proud mother of:
Gilroy - 5 y.o. brindle male, natural ears, gentle as a lamb
Purdy - 5 y.o. spayed flashy brindle, natural ears and tongue
Michaela, Boss, Tonka, Maybe, Woof, Jack, Deacon, Casey, Crystal, Flo, Kimba and Poquito, waiting at the bridge.

 

[Alisha Mobley]

Linda, Thanks for the educational reply. I learn more and more from this board every day. :D It must be the sweetest thing to see a mother tug on her babies tail.

------------------
Tyson - brindle male, cropped ears (6/18/98)
Prudence - brindle female, cropped ears (8/29/99)
Sheeba - fawn female, cropped ears (1/17/00)
Alisha - Indiana

 

[Annie's Daddy]

Ears, tails, and dew claws.

I agree that natural ears are a much better look. Its a matter of preferance. The tail??? I have heard that a boxers tail is like a billy club. the way they wiggle and dance, i would lose lots of lamps. . Don't forget about the Dew claws folks, they also often cut those off. My Annie had a cropped tail when I got her, natural ears, and still has her dews. Beano, who I recently rescued from the pound has a cropped tail and no dews either.

Personally, I think the AKA standard for showing should be natural ears. I don't know why they cut off the Dew claws?? any insights??