Don't kick me off the board for this....

[Lava Linda]

I've been thinking about this for some time, but not writing it. Well, here goes...

I'm appalled by ear cropping. I work in medical research using animals, and there is NO WAY we'd be permitted to cut off any body parts just for looks or to make things easier.
Our monkeys have tails that serve no purpose, and they love to bite each others tails when they fight, causing serious injuries. These are healthy monkeys in outdoor field cages, leading essentially normal lives in social groups of around 100. We thought that tail docking at birth would be a good idea, but how far do you think the idea got?
Not past the animal welfare regs, I assure you.
It just seems like a double standard, when everyone's upset over the suffering of research animals, yet people are having cosmetic surgery done on their pets.

Tail docking bother me too! I had a litter of pups docked at 3 days old, and was told they wouldn't feel anything. I don't buy it!! They screamed and fought with all their might, then whimpered and crawled around for the next 24 hours. Purdy was going out of her mind with worry, and I was in tears.

They DO feel it. Of this I am sure. I don't think the figurines of the cute puppies with bandages, and tears on their cheeks, are cute at all.

So, there, now I've said it. I don't condemn any of you for the choices you make, so please don't take personal offense. You're all obviously wonderful people who love your dogs. I mean this as more of a theoretical discussion, than a personal attack.
I guess it bugs me because I've been tormented by animal rights activists for the work I do, when pet owners and breeders "mutilate" their animals all the time.


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Linda, proud mother of:
Gilroy - 5 y.o. brindle male, natural ears, gentle as a lamb
Purdy - 5 y.o. spayed flashy brindle, natural ears and tongue
Michaela, Boss, Tonka, Maybe, Woof, Jack, Deacon, Casey, Crystal, Flo, Kimba and Poquito, waiting at the bridge.

 

[Jennifer -Pharaoh's Mom]

wow...you've started a sore subject here. I'll give my two cents worth. I think the word "mutilate" is a very strong word to use when describing ear crops or tail docks. We circumcize newborn babies, yet do we term that "mutilation"?
Personaly, I do not want a Boxer with a long tail as I think it takes away from their "Boxer look", nor do I want that thing whipping around and knocking into me. I've got enough bruises.
The ear crop is a personal prefference ...I like the look , but didn't crop mine...but I will NOT condem anyone else that decides to. The dog is asleep during surgery and a lot of vets are now focusing on post-surgery pain medicine, therefore reducing the amount of pain occured during and after surgery. I don't condemn people that have plastic surgery, liposuction, and/or nose jobs, yet these are all "surgical" procedures done to enhance looks and take weeks to months to heal and recover.
I've seen tail docks, and yes, they do cry, but they soon fall asleep afterwards. I'm not going to say that there is no pain, I'm sure there is, but my boxer has sliced open his paw, jumped out of my window, ramed his head into a wall, the table, broke one of his teeth, etc....I doubt he worries about his tail dock.
Anyhow, that's my two cents....
Jennifer

 

[boxer411]

I suppose I just feel that its a valid argument, but IMO untill we tackle more urgent issues, it needs to be shelved.

I can think of several more outrageous and prevelant abuses to boxers and pets in general that need addressing first.

After we've taken care of pet overpopulation, criminal abuse, irresponsible breeding and breed-specific ailments. I say lets address the cropping/docking issue.

I *do* agree that a conformation standard should deal with things bred and not manipulated (why is it that ear stays are not accepted, if artificially erect ears are required?), but I prefer cropped, docked boxers, and if that's the worst injustice my dogs have to suffer, they're luckier than the average dog.

I think its a matter of *priority*.
Simply my opinion...




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Cathi
boxer411@grm.net
North Missouri Boxer Rescue
www.grm.net/boxer411/

 

[ninersneal]

I, personally, do not like the look of cropped ears. I LOVE the expressions of Roxy's ears. I can tell so much from her feelings by looking at her ears. I have nothing against anyone who decides to crop, but I don't think it is for me. Just a personal opinion. I don't think cropping makes a boxer any less or anymore beautiful, they are wonderful in their own right .

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Rambo- beagle mix waiting at the bridge 12/85-1/2000
Roxanne- beautiful brindle born 12-99

 

[nanabear]

A Boxer with well done ears is truly handsome - and if they were born like that, it would be wonderful. Maybe if there were no more to it than the tail dock - I might consider it. But I would not put a pup of mine through it for a *look*. I really love their head with natural ears. I also like Dobies with natural ears.
I hope the day comes soon when Boxers with natural ears will be accepted as the norm in showing.

 

[Little Vera]

I have to agree with "ninersneal" on this one. Vera has the docked tail, and I am very glad because Boxer's tails are just like billyclubs when left on. I personally don't like the looks of cropped ears, and it looks like some sort of torture treatment to me. I really don't think we would like to have our ears cut off and taped to stand straight up. As for the docking of the tails, it is pretty much like a circumcision. It's done right after birth, and isn't nearly as traumatic (I think) as cropping. Who's to say? All I can say is, none of my babies will ever have it done.

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Andrea, Tim, and Vera

Vera Tigerlily 9/9/97 Petite Brindle female, black mask, natural ears, docked tail.. Cute as a button!!

 

[Badassboxer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jennifer - Pharaoh's Mom:
...the word "mutilate" is a very strong word to use when describing ear crops or tail docks. We circumcize newborn babies, yet do we term that "mutilation"?.....nor do I want that thing whipping around and knocking into me. I've got enough bruises.
The ear crop is a personal prefference ...I like the look , but didn't crop mine...but I will NOT condem anyone else that decides to. The dog is asleep during surgery and a lot of vets are now focusing on post-surgery pain medicine, therefore reducing the amount of pain occured during and after surgery. I don't condemn people that have plastic surgery, liposuction, and/or nose jobs, yet these are all "surgical" procedures done to enhance looks and take weeks to months to heal and recover.
I've seen tail docks, and yes, they do cry, but they soon fall asleep afterwards. I'm not going to say that there is no pain, I'm sure there is, but my boxer has sliced open his paw, jumped out of my window, ramed his head into a wall, the table, broke one of his teeth, etc....I doubt he worries about his tail dock.
Anyhow, that's my two cents....
Jennifer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Jennifer, you took the words right out of my keyboard! I won't even add anything, I agree with you 100% - I LOVE the look of cropped ears, I didn't do it to Debo, but when we look for our rescue, I'm looking for cropped ears and a docked tail!


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Asy
Debo - 01/23/2000
Brindle, male, soft floppy ears
MamaCat - Linx Point Siamese
Peephole - My "junk" cat who eats with his paws
WANTED: Bi-Color Maine Coon Cat!

 

[Al's Pal]

Obviously a very touchy subject. Ears are never cropped here in NZ, so I was quite shocked when I first saw cropped ears - even if we were allowed to do it here I would not (I wasn't even aware that part of the dog's ear was cut off). And, even though Ali has a docked tail, I don't like this practice either. I realise it was useful way back when boxers were used for bear baiting or whatever, but now it's only cosmetic - I'm not against people having cosmetic surgery, but people have the choice, and our boxer babies do not. One of the reasons I had Ali speyed was because I knew I wouldn't get their tails docked which could make them difficult to sell - much as I'd love to have a whole tribe of them! If I ever plan to buy a baby boxer again (as opposed to an adult dog, and assuming I can wait long enough to find a breeder who will agree to it) I'll definitely be contacting breeders first to try and find one who will not dock one puppy's tail. I do love the look of that stumpy wiggly tail - but I believe they're there for a reason. Well that's my personal opinion, I hope I don't offend anyone because I know all our dogs are truley loved whether they have cropped ears, docked tails, three legs, one eye or whatever!

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jennifer - Pharaoh's Mom:
We circumcize newborn babies, yet do we term that "mutilation"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To answer your question, Jennifer, yes some of us do consider it mutiliation (it's a male thing). And babies feel circumcisions just like dogs feel docking and cropping. Unfortunately many babies don't have the benefit of anesthesia at circumcision. Think about THAT!

I understand Lava Linda's upset. We scream about abuse all the time, in animal testing of cosmetics, medicine, etc., and about fur -- well I won't even get into that! So then how do we justify what is in this day and age basically "comsmetic" surgery on our dogs' ears? It is a double standard which doesn't make much sense to me either.

I have to sheepishly admit that before I started researching Boxers, I thought they were born with cropped ears and stubby tails. I was unaware this was done after birth. I was a little shocked when I found out. Maggie was docked when I found her, but I chose to leave her ears alone.

I also find the cropped ear a very handsome look for a Boxer. But as you might gather from my posts about spaying, any kind of surgery for Maggie makes me a nut case! I can't imagine me having her ears cropped and living with the guilt I'd have.

One would think that cropped ears and stubby tails could be bred into the Boxer breed so that surgery after birth wasn't necessary. Admittedly, I know little to nothing about breeding, so I'm probably way off the mark here. But it seems to me that they breed dogs to make them less, more active, less or more vocal, shorter or taller, different muzzle features, etc., etc. Would it not be possible to breed for the Boxer "look" of cropped ears and nubby tail? Just my thoughts.

Interesting and provocative post. I'm enjoying reading the responses here.

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Dan from Brooklyn
Proud Pappa to Maggie Mae, Born 6/16/00
Flashy Fawn (Red), docked tail, natural ears.
Pictures: http://maggie.artshost.com

 

[Lisa M]

I personally wouldn't crop my puppy's ears unless it was to be a show dog and thus required cropping. But our dogs seem to wind up all being rescued from the shelter so they come to us as is so to speak at any rate so I guess that is a moot point. I know that people on this board who choose to crop are wonerful boxer parents so I can't really say anything negative about it, just it's not something I would do myself - but just like how people raise kids we all have our own opinions about how is the best way and what things are best.

But I think that no matter how one feels about ear cropping, the point you are making is interesting because it seems a strange double standard that I hadn't ever considered. It seems you have a better reason for tail cropping than most of us who own boxers do, but you aren't allowed to do it on them even though it is for their benefit not your own.

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mama to:
-Sumi, lab mix "pound puppy"
-Casper, white boxer rescued from the Dade County Animal shelter