Dog Fighting?!?!
- Thread starter Becky A
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Jade010103
Boxer Booster
I drive a school bus and I also hear kids say alot of things and in the past I had a child say that he was abused (not in those words though) and what I did before I reported it was talk to the child asking him questions that didn't seem too pushy trying to get as much out of it that I could without sounding like I was drilling him for answers so my suggestion is to bring the subject up again like before and ask questions that the boy can answer like "do your dogs ever get hurt when they fight?" "after they're done fighting do they become friends again?" "do you see them fight?" just subtle questions can tell you alot whether they just wrestle around or are seriously fightly on a regular basis. I agree that 4 year olds can tell there own version of what they think is happening but they also are ok with telling what is really going on too. It really depends on the child. Personally I'd try to get more info out of the child before I'd report anything but to remember to not focus on just the fighting, bring up different things about the dogs also. Oh and incase anyone is wondering what happen to the child on my bus, it turned out that he had problems in his life and was just looking for attention so me reporting him saying he was abused and he wasn't helped him get the help he needed so in the long run even though I figured he was making up the stories it still worked out for the better for him.
Beausolei
Boxer Booster
I agree that a 4 year old will likely be genuine. They will at least say what they think they are seeing, but I also agree with Sullivan about jumping the gun a little. Ask the kid some dog questions like suggested, and do the ride by, and you'll probably get an idea of what is going on. As far as questioning the parent, unless you have something unmistakingly obvious I would leave that alone, besides if they are, do you really think they are going to admit it? Unfortunately with age often comes deception to fit our agenda.
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its probably a duck. I hate to put labels on people because of their lifestyle, or what kind of home they live in or car they drive, but if the kid seems to confirm your suspicion with more questions, and the appearance of the setting in question has a fitting look to it, I would consider contacting some kind of animal rights group, but when I hear ANIMAL CONTROL, I think 5 day reprieve at a kill shelter.
Be open minded, and don't let your first thought put a spin on things you find in further investigation. Act as though its fresh news. Just like a 4 year old confusing and twisting things, we as adults sometimes get stuck on an idea, and no matter what we hear, we hear what already thought, or start putting reason to something said to suit our gut feeling. ( He said this, but he must of meant that)
Back to the judging people on appearances. Be very careful and use some reason here too. Remeber who are we to say how another person lives, dresses, or places their priorities in where they spend their money? Only calculate the "where there is smoke, there must be fire" factor if the child is saying, 1. "yes my daddy makes our dogs fight, 2. Daddy has friends over to watch our dogs fight, and sometimes they bring their dogs to fight too. Daddy has to patch up our dogs after they fight." Something solid.
Another approach, ONLY IF YOU FEEL THOROUGHLY CONVINCED something is happening that should not be after some more questions, and a look at the setting in question, do a background check. This may sound like a lot, but anyone can go to their local clerk of courts office and view anyones criminal file if they have one. I'm not saying that if someone has made a mistake in the past, and manged to have a run in with the law they are obviously guilty. I have been arreested for something stupid in college 14 years ago that I am not proud of, but if you go and see a file a mile long, well back to the Ducks. Not everyone with a criminal record fights their dogs, I surely don't, but I would have to guess there are more people with records engaging in such activity, than people who have nothing more than a couple speeding tickets. I know how that sounds, but when someone decides to break the law, their reputation is tarnished, and no one is to blame for that but them.
I know this may sound over the top, and may seem just like outright snooping or taking it too far. But if you do get to the point where you feel you have no choice but to contact some kind of authorities on this matter, you will know that you defintely did not just overreact to a 4 year olds comments, and that you had very good reason to be concerned to the point where you took action. If it were me I would just want to be as sure as I could before I started making accusations. Good Luck.
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its probably a duck. I hate to put labels on people because of their lifestyle, or what kind of home they live in or car they drive, but if the kid seems to confirm your suspicion with more questions, and the appearance of the setting in question has a fitting look to it, I would consider contacting some kind of animal rights group, but when I hear ANIMAL CONTROL, I think 5 day reprieve at a kill shelter.
Be open minded, and don't let your first thought put a spin on things you find in further investigation. Act as though its fresh news. Just like a 4 year old confusing and twisting things, we as adults sometimes get stuck on an idea, and no matter what we hear, we hear what already thought, or start putting reason to something said to suit our gut feeling. ( He said this, but he must of meant that)
Back to the judging people on appearances. Be very careful and use some reason here too. Remeber who are we to say how another person lives, dresses, or places their priorities in where they spend their money? Only calculate the "where there is smoke, there must be fire" factor if the child is saying, 1. "yes my daddy makes our dogs fight, 2. Daddy has friends over to watch our dogs fight, and sometimes they bring their dogs to fight too. Daddy has to patch up our dogs after they fight." Something solid.
Another approach, ONLY IF YOU FEEL THOROUGHLY CONVINCED something is happening that should not be after some more questions, and a look at the setting in question, do a background check. This may sound like a lot, but anyone can go to their local clerk of courts office and view anyones criminal file if they have one. I'm not saying that if someone has made a mistake in the past, and manged to have a run in with the law they are obviously guilty. I have been arreested for something stupid in college 14 years ago that I am not proud of, but if you go and see a file a mile long, well back to the Ducks. Not everyone with a criminal record fights their dogs, I surely don't, but I would have to guess there are more people with records engaging in such activity, than people who have nothing more than a couple speeding tickets. I know how that sounds, but when someone decides to break the law, their reputation is tarnished, and no one is to blame for that but them.
I know this may sound over the top, and may seem just like outright snooping or taking it too far. But if you do get to the point where you feel you have no choice but to contact some kind of authorities on this matter, you will know that you defintely did not just overreact to a 4 year olds comments, and that you had very good reason to be concerned to the point where you took action. If it were me I would just want to be as sure as I could before I started making accusations. Good Luck.
xenaprincess
Boxer Insane
Put it this way....if a 4yr old child told you that he was being beaten at home...or his mother was being beaten..or he was being "touched" by someone in the home...would you not call for a full investigation? Obviously his word would be taken seriously and authorities would be called! So why should it be any different when it's the family pet that is being abused?? Children at this age are usually very truthful, sometimes to the point of causing embarrassment for the adults, and what they say should be taken seriously!
My daughter(4) has never liked this guy who lives 2 doors down with his parents. He is 29. She was always very adement about it, never wanting to be alone with him or have him touch her. She was 2 1/2 when she started that. Last Monday this guy spent the night in jail for assaulting his gf...he popped her in the face and broke her nose!! NO ONE expected that of him!! He doesn't seem the type. I spoke with his gf a few days ago and she informed me that not only was he abusive to her, but to her 2 children as well! Just goes to show ya...kids have a very deep perception often seeing what we don't! Adults need to pay attention to these lil people and respect the fact that they are people too! Good luck with your decision.
My daughter(4) has never liked this guy who lives 2 doors down with his parents. He is 29. She was always very adement about it, never wanting to be alone with him or have him touch her. She was 2 1/2 when she started that. Last Monday this guy spent the night in jail for assaulting his gf...he popped her in the face and broke her nose!! NO ONE expected that of him!! He doesn't seem the type. I spoke with his gf a few days ago and she informed me that not only was he abusive to her, but to her 2 children as well! Just goes to show ya...kids have a very deep perception often seeing what we don't! Adults need to pay attention to these lil people and respect the fact that they are people too! Good luck with your decision.
Thanks
I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question. SOME of your replies were helpful. I am taking the weekend to think about this situation and what I should do when Monday morning comes.
I must say that Sullivan might need to pipe down with the "over zealous preschool teacher" crap! I have been a social worker and now a teacher and I must tell you that kids ARE very geniune. I know of many family circumstances, personally, that the parents have no idea that I know about...like Dad went to jail Sat night for using needles in his arm and then putting mommy in the ambualnce, or my dad's friend touched my baby sister in an ugly way, and so on. Children talk with people they are comfortable with. SO, it may seem a little over the top to those who have not had the great privelege to work with children, but children are brutally honest!
Anyway, back to the dog situation...I am not planning on acting out in a rash manner, but in a manner that is in the best interest of the DOGS and the CHILD. Thanks again for all of your input!
I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question. SOME of your replies were helpful. I am taking the weekend to think about this situation and what I should do when Monday morning comes.
I must say that Sullivan might need to pipe down with the "over zealous preschool teacher" crap! I have been a social worker and now a teacher and I must tell you that kids ARE very geniune. I know of many family circumstances, personally, that the parents have no idea that I know about...like Dad went to jail Sat night for using needles in his arm and then putting mommy in the ambualnce, or my dad's friend touched my baby sister in an ugly way, and so on. Children talk with people they are comfortable with. SO, it may seem a little over the top to those who have not had the great privelege to work with children, but children are brutally honest!
Anyway, back to the dog situation...I am not planning on acting out in a rash manner, but in a manner that is in the best interest of the DOGS and the CHILD. Thanks again for all of your input!
haleyandmark
Boxer Insane
I must say I am surprised by some of the comments...with so many Boxer lovers on here and everyone being fully against dog fightings, you would think that if a 4 year old said something that sounds concerning, you would at least back Becky A up and want to have it checked out.
(I think everyone knows 4 yrs olds can be pretty blunt and truthful - I know the first time my 4 yr old cousin met Mark, he told him straight out "Haley said she loved you, are ya'll going to get married?" :rolleyes: )
Personally, if I really felt that there was something wrong here, I would go to the authorities and at least let them know what is going on so they can check it out.
Sullivanspop, we're not talking about beating down their door on Christmas morning, we're talking about letting the authorities know just in case of a situation. Why would you want to let a situation go unnoticed just becuase a person younger than you said something concerning? Like Xenaprincess said, they are people too! I have had a lot of experience with children and most of them are at their prime 'truthful' stage around that age. I know I was (I have heard some really funny stories about embarressing my cousins - Let's just say, I just have some really bad timing )! Would you feel better not saying anything at all and being concerned or reading the newspaper in two weeks finding out that an inside dog ring had been busted and see the numbers of how many dead dogs they found inside? I'm not saying that is what you'd find, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of that, knowing I could have said something to stop it earlier...
Who knows, maybe this guy even has past offenses, or maybe it's nothing more than a 4 yr old misunderstanding things...but like I said, I know that I wouldn't want to take a chance of not saying anything.
Good luck with your decision, Becky A, and do what you feel is right in your heart - update us on what you decide to do
(I think everyone knows 4 yrs olds can be pretty blunt and truthful - I know the first time my 4 yr old cousin met Mark, he told him straight out "Haley said she loved you, are ya'll going to get married?" :rolleyes: )
Personally, if I really felt that there was something wrong here, I would go to the authorities and at least let them know what is going on so they can check it out.
Sullivanspop, we're not talking about beating down their door on Christmas morning, we're talking about letting the authorities know just in case of a situation. Why would you want to let a situation go unnoticed just becuase a person younger than you said something concerning? Like Xenaprincess said, they are people too! I have had a lot of experience with children and most of them are at their prime 'truthful' stage around that age. I know I was (I have heard some really funny stories about embarressing my cousins - Let's just say, I just have some really bad timing
)! Would you feel better not saying anything at all and being concerned or reading the newspaper in two weeks finding out that an inside dog ring had been busted and see the numbers of how many dead dogs they found inside? I'm not saying that is what you'd find, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of that, knowing I could have said something to stop it earlier...Who knows, maybe this guy even has past offenses, or maybe it's nothing more than a 4 yr old misunderstanding things...but like I said, I know that I wouldn't want to take a chance of not saying anything.
Good luck with your decision, Becky A, and do what you feel is right in your heart - update us on what you decide to do
Maniago
Crafty Moderator <br><img src="/forums/images/modp
Becky said:
When someone says this statement, what it usually means is: some of the replies were what you wanted to hear
While being bruttally honesest four year olds often misunderstand situation also. Talking with the parents is more often than not the best action to take
sullivanspop said:
I agree. At four my daughter was devestated to find out Elvis was dead. She assumed since she could hear him sing and see him in movies (my mother is the biggest Elvis fan) he was still alive.
sullivanspop said:
Kids can be easily steered in the direction we want them to go.
Since you work at a daycare you should talk with the owner or director before taking any action. If this is untrue you could easily lose the daycare a paying customer and yourself a jobBecky said:
shannonmac
Completely Boxer Crazy
just my two cents
here's what I'd do. I would wait after school for the parents to pick the child up and start a casual conversation about how you both have boxers. maybe even suggest a playdate.
if he tells you, sure he/she is friendly, plan to go to their house.
if he tells you no, he/she is very aggressive, or no I fight them, you'll know.
I'm sure the last thing he would do would be to let his 4 year olds preschool teacher see that he's doing this. (unless if he's a total idiot).
I have a boxer and an AB, and to anyone who walks past their pen would think they are trying to kill each other because they act like loons! kneesaa whines at people walking by, buu barks at them, kneesaa gets mad for him barking starts barking at him, he gets mad for her barking at him barks back, and before I know it they're jumping all over each other making a scene! (it plays out the same each time) and the minute the person is done walking by they act like angels again :rolleyes:
but I look like the crazy house!
here's what I'd do. I would wait after school for the parents to pick the child up and start a casual conversation about how you both have boxers. maybe even suggest a playdate.
if he tells you, sure he/she is friendly, plan to go to their house.
if he tells you no, he/she is very aggressive, or no I fight them, you'll know.
I'm sure the last thing he would do would be to let his 4 year olds preschool teacher see that he's doing this. (unless if he's a total idiot).
I have a boxer and an AB, and to anyone who walks past their pen would think they are trying to kill each other because they act like loons! kneesaa whines at people walking by, buu barks at them, kneesaa gets mad for him barking starts barking at him, he gets mad for her barking at him barks back, and before I know it they're jumping all over each other making a scene! (it plays out the same each time) and the minute the person is done walking by they act like angels again :rolleyes:
but I look like the crazy house!
magoo's_mama
Super Boxer
I think Shannon has a good idea about talking to them about thier boxer since you are a boxer owner. I too have worked in childcare for many years and have heard many things and many stories. I also have a sister who is adopted and before that my parents took in many foster children. I will never forget the night we were at the dinner table and my foster sister said how mad her dad was because mom got blood all over thier brand new carpet (dad killed mom) thats why she was with us. Just so matterfact like it was no big deal. Children defnitley are brutaly honest and often think that these things that happen in thier lives are normal. But that being said we all know how loud our boxers are when they play and how it looks like they're fighting to most outsiders. I could definitly see Magoo wrestling and me saying to my daughter that he was just having fun. So do a little investigating, definitly find out more.
haleyandmark
Boxer Insane
I, too, think that is a good idea, Shannonmac!
I forgot to mention, I CAN see how it could be misconstrued because of how Boxers play and the child's parents didn't want the child to think that they were being mean to one another; but I still think it isn't something I would take a chance with - I would try to find out more about why this child thinks what he told you, Becky - that's why I think Shannonmac's idea is really good, that way you can find out about the parents' Boxer(s) and meet the parents and make your own judgement!
Good luck, again
I forgot to mention, I CAN see how it could be misconstrued because of how Boxers play and the child's parents didn't want the child to think that they were being mean to one another; but I still think it isn't something I would take a chance with - I would try to find out more about why this child thinks what he told you, Becky - that's why I think Shannonmac's idea is really good, that way you can find out about the parents' Boxer(s) and meet the parents and make your own judgement!
Good luck, again
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