Dodgey Breeder getting Angry at questions

[newboxerpup]

Hi there,
As mentioned in my introduction me & my partner are looking for a new boxer pup, we are in the UK. We came across a breeder on a UK based pet finding website which supplied little information about the puppies which were due to be born. Well what it turned into I am in absolute shock. What follows is conversations I have had with the 'breeder' I have removed all personal information etc in accordance with the rules, but see what you think:

Breeder:
***** is our pet this is ******'s 2 nd and final litter she is approaching 5 yrs old and the puppy in the photos is her granddaughter , my sister had one of her daughters from her 1st litter 2 1/2 yrs ago and ******* is from ******'s daughters litter born at Christmas 2013..The rosettes in the background are actually from horses although I think there Is one amongst them from a fun dog show .****** gas not been heart tested but the sire has ,he is in fact my friends dog in the neighbouring village and can be seen , he Is a beautiful ******** .Both parents are Kennel Club reg and all the puppies will come with their KC reg certificate , I will worm them regularly from birth but I wasn't intending on getting them jabbed , but can do for an additional £ 33 , however there are many vets that noffer a bundle price on a pup for their 1st 2 jabs , wormer and microchip for about £50. ow
Incidentally it is not law yet to have a dog chipped but it will be from April 2015. The pups will gave a great start in life , raised in our home amongst all the noise and chaos of family life , be used to all household noises ,other dogs, cats and horses ,my youngest daughter ***** is * and the puppies will be handled daily from birth by her and all of us .
.Ohh and yes of course you can view the puppies with their mother , think that covers everything , feel free to visit any time .

ME:
Thank you for your quick reply.
That's great to hear ****** is a family pet. With regards to the microchip and injections I assumed this would be included from seeing your price of pups as most withing this price range seem to include So if you were to change your mind I think we would be definatly interested still.
It's really great that your pretty close to ********* also as it makes for easy travelling time as we didn't want to stray past ******. Especially with the boat costs being a nightmare down here!
Were you planning on the puppies have any health checks?
The puppies certainly do sound like they will grow up in a lovely home. So as I say if you were willing to re-think the price range in account of the above or perhaps think of including the extras, that would be great, but I understand whatever happens!

Breeder: Morning,
Well I guess it depends on how many she has , having looked into prices at various vets for either the first or course of jabs plus chip I feel the majority of vets are penalizing the folk that take a litter in at £ 33 ( lowest price) for one vaccination as opposed to £50 for a course plus microchip , just a principle thing as far as I'm concerned really as we have quite a lot of animals here .
However, the life you say you can offer one of our puppies far outweighs a few pounds , my youngest daughter and I visited **** last summer and it is indeed a lovely place to live so if we have a red and white boy in the litter and you wanted him I would have his first vac done locally here .

ME:
Would you be able to send some pics of mum & dad (if you have one or are able to get one) please? The pup doesn't have to strictly be fawn and white we would like a brindle with mask, either would be nice most importantly a nice big chunky healthy boy!What is mums & dad's temperament like? Can I ask why you chose to breed her & from the dad?
You mentioned mum hasn't been heart tested but dad has? Would they be able to provide the results? And any hip, elbow and thyroid tests that mum or dad have had please
Also, are you in contact with any one who has a pup from previous litters? If so have they had any problems?As mum hasn't been heart tested it's a bit of a risk as you probably know boxers commonly have problems with their hearts.
I forgot to ask also where you will be raising the pups?

Breeder: We are not commercial breeders ....we thought , as so many people admire and love our dogs and have on occasion asked if we would breed ,we have done .
I really feel that I have answered all your questions to the best of my ability , regarding home life of the pups early weeks etc etc ..
I am not prepared to be constantly quizzed , although I do understand that you must do your homework , so have we .....,nor am I happy to send photos and details of my dogs to someone I have never met .
Our pups will have a great start to life being raised in our farmhouse with all the chaos that goes with family life .
As I said ,I welcome anyone to visit before they are born ....perhaps you should try a commercial breeder

ME:
Well I think I have all I need to know from that last email. You think that is is unusual to for me to hand over hundreds of pounds and not ask questions? An animal is not a commodity, I do not want to buy a puppy that is ill or has defects. You obviously do not realise that it is common place to see pictures of the parents that you are hoping to buy a puppy of! That is preposterous not being willing to show pictures and basic heath checks with a perspective buyer! Asking questions does not mean I should go to a commercial breeder it means I want to know the puppy I am wanting to live for a good 10 year's will not be suffering with illness and problems all it's life!
Well all I can say is that if you have that attitude, good luck selling any puppies being that defensive just sounds warning bells, people NEED to know more than 'the puppies will be used to the hustle & bustle of family life' that actually means nothing. What about the puppies are clear from heart problems, bone problems, are they from good quality dogs in the first place??
I seriously think you need to do some research of your own! You do realise with respect you are asking now £785 for puppies of no champion lines, random and unknown parents as you won't share any information about them or even their pictures, not microchipped, not insured, no dew claws removed, no inoculations, no health check. From a mother who hasn't been heart tested or any other health tested before breeding-which is quite frankly irresponsible breeding.
Believe me I am not the only person who isnt happy to give away hundreds of pounds to someone I never met for a puppy which may or may not survive past a year. All the questions I have asked you are BASIC breeder questions and if your uncomfortable with that well it clearly suggests your not all you make out to be and are hiding something.
Well I can happily say I'm glad you reacted in this absolutely unnecessary way because you have shown me what my gut was already telling me, that it would have been a mistake to get a puppy from you.
Good luck selling them, your'll need it.

Breeder: I am uncomfortable giving out information over email ,,,to a total stranger if you had read and comprehended the narrative properly !
I am not taking hundreds of pounds of anyone until they have met me , the mum and if I decide they can provide a suitable home .
Championship blood lines mean nothing ...in fact often are a result "line breeding " or in lay mans terms ...in breeding .
Parents , paperwork and health test documents could all be seen here at my house should prospective buyers visit prior to birth and I will not send over the internet to a stranger OK ? My prerogative .Defensive no , alarm bells with you and your " a little knowledge is dangerous " ...YES most definitely .
You are the one that was bidding on the price before I had even met you for gods sake .....how hypocritical you are .
Dew claws ?? Boxers don't even have rear dew claws AND I am not going to barbarically remove their front dew claws ......Do some more homework .Clearly it's a money thing with you as you could not even be arsed to get on a boat and check us or other folk with puppies availiable out on the mainland or pick up the phone !
Do not ever judge me on your own standards , I know all the health history of my boxers going back over 5 generations with all living to ripe old ages and never ever a heart problem , Ohh and a puppy being brought up around the chaos and noise of a busy home means nothing does it ? Go and buy a championship bloodline ( inbred) pup,with jabs and a chip , probably false paperwork re health testing that was born and raised in a kennel with no interaction with humans , noise etc etc ....take it from me ,those early weeks play a vital role in the dogs character for the rest of his or her life and is more important than a it's jab and chip being paid for by me . The parents of my puppies are not random and unknown thank you very much oh and incidentally , your constant banging on about price ? .....I have checked out boxer pups in the ******* and surrounding areas and they are £ 800 and £ 850 .....that saving of £ 50 + was going to pay for the ferry was it ?
I'm not into picture collectors or day trippers as I said I welcome people here anytime to meet us and our dogs prior to birth .......or heaven forbid pick up the phone , very easy to send a nasty email isn't it Good luck with your search ......lucky escape for us I think , not that I care I have a waiting list of over 15 people that have all visited or are due to visit before her due date and are very happy with what they have seen here , our dogs living a fab life in our country home with all the acres we have for them to run around in .
I took a gamble with you regarding the negotiating of the asking price and have learnt a very big lesson...and one more thing ....your ludicrous question , are they guaranteed ? Seriously ....listen to yourself LOL

 

[newboxerpup]

continued

Sorry for the essay , I couldn't fit it all in and had to delete lots :(

In the picture it shows a puppy being held up in front of LOTS of rosettes, which make it seem like they are top show people etc but then it turns out they are from horses! Which is such false 'advertising'. They also admit the dam isn't heart tested but the sire is, then later claims they have all the paper work? I thought the dam wasn't tested? They refuse to answer any questions about the dam & sire's temperament....surly that's a biggie?

I don't think I will reply to the last email :/ What's the point. Any advise appreciated I just need to know I'M not the crazy one!

This has really knocked my confidence in finding a decent breeder and just want some re-assurance that I am doing the right thing/asking the right questions etc, and that there are decent breeders out there!

Yes the spelling, grammar and sentence structure from the so called 'breeder' is also shocking... Which surly you should be professional if you are trying to sell puppies? It made me really angry that they made out all I cared about money! They were the ones that said 'it depends on how many she has' in terms of if they will bother to vaccinate or not!

I thank you all in advance for your time Again sorry for the life story, but as mentioned I would really love some feedback!

Thanks

 

[Bathel]

I don't think your questions you asked were out of line. I can't understand why any breeder would not be willing to give out health information on their dogs parents to a potential buyer regardless of being a stranger...

I know a lot of breeders don't allow or like in home visits due to health concerns and just the inconvenience of that. Although I would want to do a at home visit with the breeder, it isn't something that would stop be from buying from one if they didn't allow for that.

Now, it seems to me what you asked for was more what most breeders prefer... questions over email. Like I said above, I didn't see anything information asked for that shouldn't' and wouldn't be easily given without risk of "privacy" concerns.

The last bit with the "defensive" email is a bit understandable as your prior email was a bit pointed and targeted... not saying that the breeder should have responded as such, but let's remember that most breeders are not necessarily the most elegant of business dealers...

Having said all that, No... I would not buy from this breeder. Mostly due to the thought that they don't seem willing to engage in winning your trust. If you were to have issues, what could you expect from them in regards to making it correct? My guess is that you'd be met with the same type of condemnation as the last email. My thoughts are there are plenty of reputable breeders out there that WANT to earn your trust and you don't need to settle. Write off this one and move on to the next one. Just like every dog isn't right for every person, not every breeder is right for every owner... put no more thought to it.

 

[newboxerpup]

Thanks

Thanks Bathel for your reply It is much appreciated.

That is exactly what I thought that questions over email would be best to get all the formalities out the way and it is an easy way of remembering all that you want to say as phone conversations can often stray of and you wind up forgetting to ask the important questions.

I found it SO bizarre that this breeder would have me visit somewhere without asking any questions or seeing pictures of the dam & sire, all the adds I have seen have shown the parents as this shows what the pups will turn out like :/

I just found it so offensive being referred to as a 'stranger' as in my opinion I am not a stranger I am a potential owner offering a loving home to one of your puppies. I don't understand how they found it laughable that I asked for a heath guarantee! Isn't that what the professional's advise?

Also the focus so much on the pups growing up 'with all the chaos that goes with family life' saying it so many times, is so suspicious! If you've already said that why keep on about it, just drew my thought's into thinking hmm puppy farm maybe?

Surly if the dam was your pet dog, you'd have so many photos of her? That you'd happily send over! I don't understand how this was out of order .

I just don't understand how my questions could provoke them. Surly they should be like 'oh this person knows what they should be asking, that's a good thing', well if they were professional...

That was exactly my concern, I would want breeder help for life should I need it, and this person would obviously not give that. They would get offended. It's like there way of doing things are 'Well I say the puppies are fine; so if you say otherwise YOUR suspicious and wrong'

That's the thing with home visits I don't understand why this person was so adamant that the only thing they were happy to do was for you to come and see the dam. Why would you do that, and waste time and money when the dam could produce pups that pass away after a year. I couldn't cope with that, I couldn't cope with the heartbreak. I presume why they want you to see her is so 'you can see she's healthy-so what?' sort of thing.

I just HOPE I won't encounter this again, as I said it really has knocked my confidence. Your right I should forget about it but I take personal attacks like this to heart and it does get to me :/ I hope I will find a decent breeder somewhere! At least when I finally do I will be back sharing my pics for sure

 

[sjtorr]

I can understand both points of view. However, now that there is a negative vibe in the relationship, my personal preference would be to find another breeder. We still have a relationship with our breeder, and in our contract if we ever decide to get rid of our dog the breeder gets first opportunity to take her back and find a good home.

I would say find someone else, and let them know upfront how much you are interested in the lineage and knowing about the parents. That said, I didn't see the details on lineage until I went to meet the breeder, apart from what she had posted on her website. She posted all the health checks on her breeding dogs though... Just my two cents.

 

[whiskers]

Even if this were the greatest breeder out there, I'd say walk away just based on the fact that clearly you two would never "click." If I'm getting a dog from a breeder, I want someone who I can trust and feel comfortable with, someone who I can converse with throughout the dog's life and be able to ask them questions etc.... I don't think you could have a decent relationship with this person.

I don't think you asked anything wrong, the fact that she won't share any information with you and thinks basic temperament/health questions are a "quiz," those are big red flags! She should be more than happy to share these things, and should be thrilled that you care enough to ask!