Chicken Eater!

[Copper Hill Boxers]

I've been reading this thread since yesterday, trying to decide what I wanted to say & how i wanted to say it.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that killing livestock is unaceptable. My grandparents were farm people, and I know that this behavior is a concern. However, most farmers also realize that they need to keep livestock confined. A 4' fence is not going to keep your chickens in.

What is of concern to me is the harsh methods you employ to teach this puppy to not kill your chickens. All "getting him good" does is to teach this dog to fear you, and it won't be long before he sees you & takes off running in the other direction.

Boxers have a naturally high prey drive. They like to chase things that run away from them. If you cannot keep the chickens confined, you have two choices: confine the puppy, or find another home for him. IMO, boxers are not the ideal farm dog. They are not natural herders as a rule, will chase things & kill them, and tend to get into a whole lot of fun/trouble before their 3rd birthday.

I realize that you are isolated and may not have obedience classes nearby, but you obviously have a computer. I suggest a search for training sites would be in order.

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Cindy B/Copper Hill Boxers
http://www.geocities.com/copperhillboxers

 

[Valerie]

I am with Nanabear and Copper Hill Boxers on this one. If you don't want a dog that has a high prey drive, then a boxer was a poor choice, if you want a dog that won't dig, a boxer was a poor choice. These dogs Can be taught not to do this, but it takes time and a ton of effort to get them that way. IMO you are confusing the heck out of this pup, keep in mind that his brain is simple, like a childs, and he isnt understanding you when you are shaking a chicken in his face then yelling at him for showing interest. To him, you are asking him to show interest, then discipling him for doing so.

Tying a dog up for hours till he knows what he did wrong, isnt teaching him a thing. Once again, you are doing nothing but confusing him. He doesnt understand after a few minutes why he is out there and the family is inside. After a few minutes of doing wrong, they no longer remember what it is the are being punished for. IMO you are being cruel to this dog, and if I was to witness this I would call the authorities to be honest. Boxers are not for everyone and I think you made the wrong choice for a farm dog. I would start looking for a new home for this boy, for his sake, I think it would be best. Either that or seek help, even if you have to drive for hours, you owe it to this pup after you decided to bring him into your life. Good luck and I will pray for your pups sake that this is resolved asap.

 

[Mac and Tigra's mom]

I have to agree, Boxers have a HUGE prey drive. My male wants to chase anything that moves. Especially cats. It's your Job to keep him away from your chickens, it's very sad that he has killed so many already, it breaks my heart. I think that boxers are the wrong breed for the type of life style you live. Your boy is going to constantly try and kill those chickens, either give your chickens away, or find a new home for your dog. I can't see this working out. I also don't agree with the punishment you have chosen, it's way to cruel. you have gotten some good advice here, I hope you use it.


good luck to you!

 

[jess]

Well i'll probably end up sounding like a real bitch here. please excuse the language but the way you are punishing your dog is unexcuseable! As for the comment about popping him with a bb gun i really hope you weren't serious. I probably shouldn't even be responding to this post but this is hitting way to close to home as my dog was just recently almost killed by a chow that was mistreated by his owner and became violent. While I am aware that you are not trying to make your dog ugly or mean and are actually trying to do the exact oppisite I fear in the long run you could end up turning him into a fear biter. I don't know how hard you have spanked your dog but by the way you worded it it sounded as though it was pretty hard. In all reality how long do you think your pup will put up with this type of treatment? Yes at first he might try to run and hide from you but if you continue to treat him this way it is very likely that he will turn into a fear biter. As when you tied him to the post and whacked him everytime he sniffed the chicken. Now i don't know how most of you feel but let me tell you if i were that pup and you kept whaking me and i couldn't get away i would eventually get tired of being smacked and try to protect myself. Another thing that concerns me is the fact that as for reasons to keep him your first comment is we paid good money for him. Please for the sake of this dog either start treating him in a manner that wont end up hurting or killing him in the long run or give him to someone who will give him a loving home without being whacked or shot at with a bb gun. While your pup is only four months old he may tolerate you hitting him now but as he grows his tolerance for this type of treatment WILL deminish and you WILL have a dog that bites out of fear. If your only concern is for the good money you paid for this dog i know i for one would be glad to send you a check for what this dog cost you if it ment he would go to a home where he would be treated properly. I'm sorry if this sounds terrible and harsh but this is why my dog almost died and another will be destroyed. Sorry if i upset anyone but I've been reading this post for the last couple of days and the more i read it the more upset i get. I just want what's best for this pup.

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Mom to,
Biscuit- brindle docked, not cropped
Digger, Gunner,Spike,Carol-beagles
Odie- golden retriever/irishsetter cross
Calvin- springer/boxer cross
Cherokee,Apache,Boca,
& Tiggy -horses

[This message has been edited by jess (edited 09-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by jess (edited 09-14-2000).]

 

[Bustersmom]

Well isnt this topic interesting
So for my thoughts..
First you should show and teach your puppy what is expected of him around chickens.
In the classes I teach I spend two weeks on a puppy that young using the words Leave it and food in his mouth each time he hesitates, slacks off the leash or looks at you. Stuff food into babies mouth so they get positive reienforcement for leaving, not chasing or just plain trying.
Two weeks of this before any corrections are handed out.
lets face it you went straight to correction and in the process have taught your puppy stop drop and RUN like hell. Your recall or come training will go very poorly for here on out as you have broken his trust level.
This is one of the most important bonds you will need for traing a boxer...they like to be stubborn and defy you if you dont con them into your way of thinking.

This all can be forgiven and brought back.
When you can not watch him on leash with bait in hand then you will have to have him in such a way he can not make these mistakes and learn to be sneaky.
A tie out at your front door or a large pen for his duties.

Some type of enclosure for the chickens as well.

Lets face a boxer has one of the highest prey drives out there becuase of its orginal and natural work..this is not going to be easy nor will it be fun..but I am sure with lots of positive reienforcemnet your boxer will want to please you by doing his best at leaving them alone.

My other suggestion is get more chickens try to figure into the numbers you have to the amount he will likly kill. Feed him raw foods and be done with it.

I wish you luck a boxer on a farm with animals is a very challenging equation.

 

[sandy oakey]

Nanabear is right on about this one. I don't think I should say anything else but I think maybe a new home for the pup would be best.

 

[KathyB]

I had decided to leave the board and not even bother to reply, but I think I will. Yes, I live in a rural area with livestock, which is probably different from most of you, so you may not be in a position to fully understand my situation. I was upset when I wrote my original post, because I had just witnessed some upsetting things, so I understand I came off harder than I intended. I did spank the dog as I said, and believe there are situations where it is warranted, but I did not BEAT him. He is NOT afraid of me, I have NOT lost his trust, and I am NOT a cruel person. He still lives IN my house, still wiggles his butt when he sees me, still lays in my lap, still gets his treats, and still is a happy pup. As far as that goes, if you crop your dogs ears, dock his tail, remove dewclaws you can always find someone who will consider what you have done as cruel and abusive. As far as calling the authorities, let me tell you what would have happened. In a county where livestock is prevelant, a deputy will tell you to shoot any dog that comes into your yard and harms your livestock. I DO NOT agree with that, and have lost many ducks, chickens, etc to neighbors dogs and YES the dogs are still alive and around. I have asked several people around my area what their opinion on this situation is including other farm people, vets, and an spca director, and have been given many responses, but none of which have seemed to think I am wrong for disciplining the dog and trying to teach the dog right from wrong. Yes I fully expect to lose a few more chickens in the process, but I have confidence this pup will learn as the others have. I have a boxer/chow mix that was the same as this pup and she has learned the chickens are off limits, and she is a very happy dog. I am told all the time my dogs are spoiled rotten, and yes, they are because they know their place in the family and NONE of them came here pretrained. Some of you obviously disagreed with me but were kind enough to give what I came for in the first place, suggestions, and I truly thank you for that. Krikkit, I sincerely did not mean to offend you in anyway, and I do appreciate your responses and will look for the books you suggested. Brutus and Amayas Mom, thank you again for your support, whether you agreed with me or not, you showed your understanding in the fact that I want this dog to learn OUR way, rather than trying to change our lifestyle for HIM. Jan, although you obviously disagreed with me you were kind enough to offer good suggestions instead of pure critisims. I do believe this dog will be able to fit into our lifestyle, if not he will be placed into another home where he will be better suited. Remember, I came here looking for suggestions and help, not looking to pick any fights. If you want to change peoples thinking to fit your beliefs, you should try educating instead of chastising. Good luck with your doggies and I truly hope that if you ever find yourself in the position of needing serious help for a serious problem you are not made to feel the way I have been made to feel. You can blast off all you want after this post, but I will not be responding to those blasts.

 

[nanabear]

Kathy, I am going to apologize for my strident approach. Let's just say I really felt from reading your original post.......you were wrong.
You are in the very best possible place to get experienced information. Many people here have owned Boxers for years, are breeders, compete in obedience and agility and show their dogs as well.
We honestly don't want to drive you off, if you are willing to take some advice (you might have to spend some money on improving your chicke enclosure) and change the way you have done things in the past - you will find supportive advice here.
Come out on the "Boxer Ring" forum and start over. We all love our Boxers, but know they can be a difficult breed. I am on my second one, so I *knew* what I was in for when we brought home another one. But there were times when I was so frustrated with him - I was ready to re-home him.
Can we shake hands and start over for the sake of your pup?

 

[Monika]

Many years ago, my mother who is very active in dog rescue and trains dogs, acquired a St. Bernard from a family who, if she couldn’t “FIX” the problem were going to get rid of him because he was a chicken killer. These people had tried every form of punishment they could think of and believe me from the look of this boy, they could think of a lot. He arrived at our house with a dead rotting chicken tied around his neck.

Anyway my mother worked with this dog for months and months and was never able to get him to not chase birds that was just his nature, once he had gotten a taste for fowl that was it, he was hooked. And believe me my mother is a profession trainer, if she couldn’t do it I don’t think it could be done. She got him to understand it was wrong but never could trust him unsupervised.

The out come of this story and my reason for mentioning it to you is that my mother decided that this dog just couldn’t be trusted to live in the country around fowl and unless the owners were willing to make changes in order to keep their chickens safe for him. They were not willing and my mother found him a home in the city. He lived a long and happy life. Some dogs just aren’t country dogs.

 

[jess]

Kathy,

I also live in the country and have ducks and chickens. I also have cats and rabbits that live in the house. I am sorry i was so harsh but i do think there are better ways to train your pup and just don't want him to end up being a biter. Biscuit also used to chase all of the smaller animals she never killed them but she did get a hold of a couple. If you aren't able to fence in your chickens here are some things to try it will take time and effort as it's not a problem that can be fixed overnight. First you know your pup can't be trusted loose when the chickens are out so unless you are there to supervise him please keep him in a pen or on a leash. Sometimes the best cure is prevention. Biscuit eventually grew out of this as she became more familiar with the animals. She would chase anything before. The neighbors cows, my horses, the ducks, the chikens, the cats and the rabbits. I don't like the use of shock collars but I dislike the thought of hitting the pup even more. If you do decide to use one please us it sparingly. You can find them reasonably priced in most hunting catalogs. Gander mountian ,Cabelas and other catalogs of the like. Please don't leave the board I think most of us just were VERY upset by the way you worded your post. I was upset because my dog was attacked by a dog who was mistreated and didn't mean to take it out on you but i learned the hard way what can happen to a dog who has been made to be afraid and you must admit your post made it sound like you were very harsh with him. If that wasn't the case then i am sorry but if it was please find more constructive ways to train him. By the way does he have a name and what does he look like? I think if you come back to the board you'll find we aren't a bunch of bullies but we are a group of very caring people and our dogs mean everything to us and the thought of one being mistreated makes everyone a little hot under the collar. I am sorry if we have underminded you and made you feel bad. We just want what's best for yor pup but we probably could have approached it in a better way.

------------------
Mom to,
Biscuit- brindle docked, not cropped
Digger, Gunner,Spike,Carol-beagles
Odie- golden retriever/irishsetter cross
Calvin- springer/boxer cross
Cherokee,Apache,Boca,
& Tiggy -horses