BYB, registered dogs and Champion breeders(long)

[Carrey_Bazil]

Hi, this is Abhijit from India. There have been some discussions about back yard breeders here and I would like to share my own experience and some doubts. I got Carrey 4 months ago from someone who I didn't know was a back yard breeder. Later I found out that Carrey has cryptorchidism.

When I went to see the pups the breeder showed his parents who looked very healthy and well cared for. I was told that there were two litters, one registered and the other not registered. I opted for the registered one, and was told that the required papers will arrive a month or two later, which they did, the papers were genuine, in order and issued by the kennel club here. The breeder filled out her share in the trasfer forms and told me to send the completed forms to the KCI representative in the state. I could not see the KCI rep for another two months and when I did, he told me about Carreys condition as he could not see his testicles in the photographs. I was shocked pretty much, but didn't really know what to do. Carrey has become a part of the family now and I don't think I can just take him back and return him to his breeder. Anyway, I handed over the paperwork to the rep and told me to wait a month which I am doing now.

Later, I talked to a vet and he told me that the same thing has happened to the breeders previous stocks. She has only one stud and three bitches, so probably this a hereditary defect from the bitches side; the stud had two testicles when I saw him. It is clear that this woman is breeding specimens which should not be bred. And worse still, getting them legally registered with the Kennel club. The only reason I had bought a pup from her was that the litter was registered.

My question is this, is the kennel club justified in granting registrations to a litter which they know comes from a defective stock ? Can they be held liable to negligence in this matter ?

When I opted for a registered dog, I had put my faith in the Kennel Club, but now I am not sure.

 

[gmacleod]

Well, cryptorchidism is fairly common - and unless someone were actually using a cryptorchid male for breeding (which you say is not the case), then I can see no basis for calling them irresponsible.

This is an inherited condition, certainly. But it is NOT a simple dominant mode of inheritance. Meaning that a stud with both testicles normally descended is fully capable of producing cryptorchid offspring (and unless - or even if -the three bitches in question are extremely closely related, I'd put more money on the defect having come from the stud since he's the common denominator).

That being the case, unless the dog or one of the bitches were producing an abnormally high number of cryptorchid puppies, there isn't a reason to remove that animal from a breeding program. It's not as if we're talking about a serious disease, after all, particularly as compared to other things that boxers are prone to. Sure, cryptorchid pups need to be neutered - but then, so should any pet be. The only real "disadvantage" of a cryptorchid pup is that the neuter may be more involved and slightly more expensive than is normally the case.

 

[Carrey_Bazil]

Champion breeders and puppy mills

Anyway, I am now looking for a brother to keep Carrey company. I contacted a reputable breeder recently and went over to see his litter. What I saw there was something I had never expected. This guy had about 6-7 litters of different breeds, most above 2 mo with both parents present on site in some cases. All these pups were locked away in small pens, seperatly from their parents. He showed me the certificates. The sire comes from a champion line and is an imported champion himself. When I got a look at the pups, I was taken aback on how different they were from Carrey, there was something of a perfection in the way they were built. The price he quoted was exactly the double of of what i paid to the BYB. He told me that they were show prospect dogs and they hadn't been neutered. So if I choose to get a new one it will probably be from him.

What troubles me about this case is the the way the breeder has been breeding so many dogs in one go. The breeder claims he only breeds top stock and it seems that way at least on paper, most dogs are pedigreed and the boxers werent the only champions. I have checked with the Kennel Association, and this guy has participated in several shows and won as well. The pups I saw that day were very healthy and well fed. However, my impression is that this guy is effectively running a puppy mill. From what I have read, dogs kept in such surroundings have more probability to contradict skin infections, worms and parasites. In fact there was a dog on the premises that had a clear case of mange. Under these circumstances, should I buy from this breeder ?

I can understand, why some people breed dogs for the betterment of the breed, but having 6 litters at once ? Why would someone got to that extent ? And what about breaking even, from what I have read it is hard for breeders to do so. How will this guy manage to cover the costs of having six litters ? My naive guess is profit, for I can see no other reason.

I wonder if this person is alone in doing so, or is this how "proper" breeders always work ? Should I be wary of this guy because he's running a puppy mill ? Is it ethical even when the parents are champions ?

 

[Carrey_Bazil]

Like I mentioned, I was told by my vet that the BYBs previous stocks have had cryptorchid puppies. Also, I forgot to mention, the KC rep told me that they had come across another cryptorchid pup from the same stock. This is a small place, and both my vet and the KC rep knew of the breeder. I also know now for a fact that the BYB whelps puppies for a living.

 

[EAO76]

Anyway, I am now looking for a brother to keep Carrey company. I contacted a reputable breeder recently and went over to see his litter. What I saw there was something I had never expected. This guy had about 6-7 litters of different breeds, most above 2 mo with both parents present on site in some cases. All these pups were locked away in small pens, seperatly from their parents. He showed me the certificates. The sire comes from a champion line and is an imported champion himself. When I got a look at the pups, I was taken aback on how different they were from Carrey, there was something of a perfection in the way they were built. The price he quoted was exactly the double of of what i paid to the BYB. He told me that they were show prospect dogs and they hadn't been neutered. So if I choose to get a new one it will probably be from him.

This sounds like a puppy mill. I personally think this is worse than the byb...

 

[GoCougs]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....