Brother / Sister Breeding

[dasota2]

Inbreeding

Inbreeding is the breeding of immediate family members(mother, father, sister, brother, grandparents and aunts and uncles) This is not ok for any reason. Line breeding is the breeding of relatives such as cousins, they recommend at least 3 generation gap and this should only be done by breeders who know their line and know there are no genetic defects. The only reason that this is done is if a breeder is looking of a certain trait that they want their dogs to carry. NO respectiable breeder will inbreed.

 

[Bentley's mom]

I, personally, don't agree with inbreeding. I also haven't read that much about it...however it would be something I would never do.

 

[JulieM]

Line breeding is the breeding of relatives such as cousins, they recommend at least 3 generation gap

Who is "they"?

I've never heard of a 3-generation "gap", dog you mean the linebred ancestor should be 3 generations back (great-grandsire/dam)? Or 3 generations between the ancestor on either side (i.e., 1st generation on one side, 4th generation on the other)?

The "ideal" linebreeding is based on Lloyd Brackett's formula:
Let the sire of the sire be the grandsire of the dam, on the dam's side.

In other words, uncle-niece.

NO respectiable breeder will inbreed.

Well, obviously that's a matter of opinion. I know many respectable and responsible breeders who linebreed (some of which you call inbreeding), and in fact (as illustrated above) some of our best Boxers were - and still are - the product of intense line- and inbreeding.

 

[kassa]

I think it's also important to see if it was an accidental breeding. They happen. They shouldn't, but they do.

Breeding littermates should be a very unusual and well thought out exception to regular practice. If it's somebody who just has two littermates and doesn't know what they're doing and has an accident, they're probably doing 100 other things wrong and I'd be worried about the offspring for the cumulative effect of all those reasons.

Likewise, if the breeder had an accidental breeding and decided (for whatever reason) to proceed with the pregnancy, but the dogs behind that pair are not especially inbred and their health testing and temperament verifiable, and it was just a matter of SOMEBODY leaving open a gate or door at an inopportune time, I don't think there's any real ground for worry. A pet puppy from that situation may still be a better bet than a puppy from two unrelated dogs of lesser quality or unknown background.

In short, don't reward people for taking shortcuts and not taking proper precautions, but the genetic ramifications on the offspring from this happening once in recent memory is probably not that profound.

 

[Shadowboxer]

The most successful British kennel ever, Wardrobes Boxers, owned by Constance and Wilson Wiley, followed a program of very close line-breeding and in-breeding. Brother-sister, father-daughter matings gave them many great champions. Of course, the Wileys knew the the faults and virtues of their dogs for generations back and planned matings accordingly. It is only with this great depth of knowledge, and the preparedness to cull, that in-breeding should be undertaken.

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

Line breeding and Inbreeding are different.

I would never even consider purchasing (or taking) a pup from a brother/sister breeding.

This is exactly my opinion. I know the example was given of an older show kennel from years and years ago doing their breedings so intensely. But remember, we did not know anything about heart problems back then. What we DO know that is Boxers have AS, SAS and BCM not to mention DCM, Cancer, Tumor, etc. It has been accepted more in the present that all that in-breeding in the past more than like contributed greatly to the problems of today.

Those earlier breeders were breeding on the principles they knew at that time. Just as we should now do the same with the tons of more genetic and medical information we have today. As a show breeder who does know their dogs, I fail to see the reason to breed a brother and sister today when there are so many quality studs around the country that help bring in new traits and DNA and hopefully breed towards healthier dogs.

In most of the breedings I hear about in my area that are sibling to sibling, it has usually been an irresponsible breeder simply breeding to sell puppies and make some extra money. No a single Cardiologist testing result sheet to be found :(


Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets

 

[Faughtey]

I heard about a breeder who line bred, but apparently made some awful mistake. A couple of the puppies were deformed. Their back legs were on backwards when they were born. They were immediately culled. I heard this second hand, but believe it may be true. I think these breeders did not know what they were doing, but were intent on establishing name recognition by breeding closely related pairs with their kennel name. They were so eager for success they let it overtake common sense.

 

[Toni47]

Brother/Sister Breeding

Many years ago I had a wonderful German Bred German Shepard and when it came time to have her bred I could not for the life of me find a comprable male, finally I found one in the area and found out that he was her full brother same litter, what were the chances in that. Gads. Well after I checked it all out with many sources I went ahead and had her bred. She had a litter of the most awesome pups you would ever want to see and they were perfect in every way, looks, temperment, size, everything. The only oddity was one huge pure white male with dark eyes, not an Albino. This dog was amazing and was sold to a High School Coach that adored him. So I guess it can't be all to bad. The next time I had her bred a couple years later it was to an American Bred and those puppies were all of very poor quality, why I do not know but they were small, and I must say homely for a Shephard with bad noses and heads and my Female Lady was so wonderful.
Now with my boxer mix Julie I would not have bred her to her brother if she were pure-bred. To big a risk unless it was checked to make darned good and sure there was no line or in breeding in her history.

 

[JulieM]

I think Dr. Bell says it best:
Inbreeding does not create undesirable genes, it simply increases the expression of those that are already present in a heterozygous state.

If a full brother and sister are genetically free of disease, breeding them together will not create that disease in the puppies. If two totally unrelated dogs each carry the gene for a disease, breeding them together will result in some puppies that are affected with that disease. (For a dominant trait, only one dog needs to have the gene.) It is not inbreeding that is responsible for the spread of genetic disease, it is uninformed breeding.

Bang Away sired over 200 litters, Fashion Hint and Traper over 100 each - surely they were not all inbreedings (though of course many were). That is not to say that those earlier breeders are to blame - they quite honestly had no idea that there was anything to be concerned about. (And, of course, I'm not entirely convinced that all the things we think are genetic truly are.) But BCM has been established as having a dominant mode of inheritance - which means that even if all of those popular sires were only outbred, if they had BCM (which I'm not saying they did!), we'd still be facing the same widespread problems in the breed.

 

[harley03]

One of the many articles I've found related to inbreeing....
Inbreeding effects on the immune system

This topic is very interesting to me as I have (as of last term) presented a paper during my evolution course which included effects of inbreeding to the evolution of a species and the ability of inbred populations (or small natural populations) to fight off pathogens and parasites due to reduced genetic variability.

The paper is named Rapid Evolutionary Dynamics and Disease Threats to Biodiversity if anyone is interested in reading it. It is not directly focusing on inbreeding, but does mention it. Very interesting.