A little help please.

[dafzichu]

I am hoping to get a little help with Mindy and raw. In January I switched Mindy to raw hoping to help her chronic diahrrea. We started with Honest Kitchen until, in March, I decided to scrap that and just go with the real deal. I started her at 2% of her body weight, it was quickly apparent that wasn't enough, so two weeks in I started giving her 2.5%. Still not enough, so up to 3%. Still no use, she just keeps getting thinner, honestly, I feel terrible b/c she looks terrible weight-wise. Right now I am feeding her 5% of her body weight desparately trying to get weight on her, but I am at wits end, if she doesn't start gaining soon, I am going to have to put her back on kibble. I don't see any other way and that is sad b/c this has completely taken the diahrrea away and she is softer then ever before. Here is what her diet consists of right now:

Morning: 24oz Chicken Necks and Backs
Night: 16oz Boneless meat (Beef, Pork, Turkey, Fish)
Also about 2 eggs a week and we are working in offal, but she hates it so I am still working on that.

I just don't know if I am doing something wrong or if for some reason raw just isn't for Mindy. She does have a vet appointment next week, so I will make sure things are generally okay with her health, but the weight-loss has definitely coincided with the change in food. Please help, any advise at all is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[GoCougs]

I have more questions than answers:

You are feeding her 2 1/2 lbs of food a day, so is 50 lbs is what you are working from as her current weight, or her ideal weight?

How much does she currently weigh?

Can you see more ribs than just the last 2 or 3?

Is she on any medication? Preventatives?

What kind of kibble were you feeding prior to changing to raw?


That's an awful lot of food for a full grown adult, in my mind. I'd definitely be concerned that there is some underlying issue going on. Your vet will probably want a stool sample (if she isn't on a preventative) to check for parasites. They will most likely do a full blood panel as well.

 

[Kaybie's Mom]

I have to agree with GoCougs. My dogs eat raw in the morning and kibble in the evening, but when they were on full raw, they still didn't eat that much. Atreyu (aprx 70 pounds) is my biggest and most active dog and he gets skinny really easily because he is so active. He ate aprx 2.5 pounds of food per day but Kaybie (aprx 71 pounds) and Bruno (aprx 55-60 pounds) only ate 1.5 pounds of food per day and maintained a healthy weight. I'd think something else is going on if she's still losing weight eating that much every day. Is it possible she could have worms or anything like that? I know when I found Bruno (my pitty), he was a good 10-15 pound underweight and when we did a stool sample, he had worms, and the vet told me that could also be a cause of him being underweight because no matter how much he eats, the worms are taking the nutrition from him. Keep us updated on what the vet says...

 

[Gruntsmom]

No input, but thinking of Mindy and sending lots of positive and healthy vibes her way.

 

[BetsyB]

That sounds like WAY TOO MUCH bone to me! You didn't say what her ideal weight is, so it's a little hard to give you exact amounts specifically for Mindy. I know both of my Boxers weigh around 57-60 pounds, and eat between 20 and 24 ounces per day.
You've said you're feeding that much in boney meals in addition to a pound of boneless meat per day? Maybe you should try decreasing the amount of bone you're feeding and increasing the boneless meat. Perhaps, if you fed 24 ounces of boneless, and supplemented that with some bone in, it would help her to gain/maintain weight better. I would also recommend feeind a higher ratio of red meat if possible. (think boneless pork, beef heart, etc...)

 

[dafzichu]

Thank you for all the comments. Just to clarify, her ideal weight is 50lbs. I have been feeding her 5% for only about 1.5 weeks in hopes of putting some weight back on her and then cutting her back down to the more normal 3%. I have to admit, in the last two days I have started to notice alot less ribs, so I am hoping that is a good sign.

On Monday when we see the vet, she will be getting her yearly exam, so stool sample and full CBC and Chem panel will be done (she has to get that b/c of the Babesia).

I am feeling more optimistic today about not having to go back to kibble, but we will see what the vet visit brings, hopefully only good news. I will let everyone know.

Betsy, thanks for your specific suggestions, I do think she is getting too much bone, her poo is a bit too chalky. I will definitely try to alter the ratio and include more red meat like you said, makes logical sense calorie wise.

 

[LILYLARUE]

When I first started my 3 on raw, prey model, they did need more bone for firmer poops. After about 3 months, they all needed adjusted.

The boxer needs atleast 2 bone in meals for every 3-4 meaty meals or she gets cannon butt. So I feed her bone-in chicken every third day. Ample organ meat throughout the week.

My staffy needs very little bone, but more organ meats or she's too sluggish. She will get 1 bone-in chicken piece for every 3rd meal or she's pooping chalk.

My mix needs more meaty meals and less bone. Hard to get the organs in him, so try to give every meal but he usually only accepts it every 3rd or so meal.

I have to also recalculate for every meat they eat. Beef and chicken follows the above rules. Venison is so rich, so they need a bone-in piece each meal to keep the poops firm. Pork has the oposite affect. They need very little bone during pork feedings.

It's a constant thought process feeding my 3. But keeps the mind young with all the calculations. LOL

 

[dafzichu]

Alright, so we went to the vet. First good thing, my vet feeds raw!!!! She gave me her feeding regiment and advised me on some adjustments to my feeding and was just, overall, very supportive of this diet. Of course I appreciate this alot b/c of some of the stories I have read on this forum about vets and this diet.

Mindy doesn't have any parasites and her blood work was mostly fine. Her lipids and BUN were a bit high, but my vet said that with starting raw it can take some time for those numbers to adjust to the new feeding (increased protien and fat content), so we will retest in 3 months to make sure things are normal as long as Mindy doesn't show any signs of illness.

So, the other thing is, I had thought Mindy's ideal weight was 50lbs, but considering she is underweight at 53lbs (when weighed at the vet), my caluclations were a bit off. I am thinking that about 57lbs is probably about her real ideal weight. So I have taken some of the advise above and with the adjustment of her ideal weight, she is now getting 3.5% of her ideal weight and I am not seeing as many bones as I was, actually, she looks a ton better.

So apparently, I am the one that needs the help here b/c I was starving her thinking her ideal weight was 50lbs; I am a terrible mother! Thanks for all the advise and support, I really, really appreciate it!

 

[LILYLARUE]

NO! Not a terrible Mom at all!! I think the majority has had the adjustment period of the scale. Too much bone, too little bone, too much meat for the weight, not enough......blah blah.

You are an awesome Mom cause you didn't give up! You knew what was best and you are doing the learning curve to get perfect with it. Kudos to you!!!

You are a rare, lucky one to find a RAW supportive vet. Mine is too and I can say it has been such a hinder I didn't want to have to face. Glad I didn't.

You keep asking questions here and of your vet and you will be a RAW PRO in no time!!! Then you will wonder why you had such a hard time of it cause it will be so dang easy!

 

[entelekia]

Hi,

I had a very similar issue with my female.

See this post: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138205

Laika is now at 52 lbs and looks great! (if I do say so myself, see here: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141967).

Check with your vet though, just because it worked for us doesn't necessarily means it will for you. Now that she's stabilized in weight, we actually reduced the amount of kibble to 1/4 cup (snack) mid-day. Sometimes we even just measure out the 1/4 cup and throw it in a treat bag and use that for training.

Good luck!