$800.00?????whoh!!!!!

[gmacleod]

...all the breeders that we have talked to want you to sign some stupid contract saying that you wont breed the animal or you have to have a prepaid reciept saying that you are getting the animal spayed.

And I, conversely, am delighted to see that there are so many responsible breeders out there

Has it not occured to you that the dogs that are sold as pets, on spay neuter contracts, are not breeding quality? That is *why* they're on spay/neuter contracts. If they were show potential puppies (which is *less* than breeding potential), they wouldn't be being sold to pet homes. And pets homes should not be breeding (prostituting their dogs). I'm delighted that there are so many breeders taking steps to prevent the irresponsible and ignorant breeding of the dogs they porduce. You should appreciate that, not denigrate it.

 

[K_J's Dad]

I have no desire to breed, nor do I have the money, time or the experience. I strongly disagree with people who buy from champion lines and then breed with another neighborhood Boxer because they think that he is handsome or has a great personality. There is much more involved in breeding than that.
I do not understand why people are so unwilling to sign. I have worked in shelters and with rescues. The numbers of dogs that are put down are staggering. You cannot save them all and you cannot place them all. It is a sad fact. The best you can do is educate the public on the importance of spaying/neutering their dogs and work your butt off to place the ones in the shelter into responsible caring homes.

I completely agree. We paid $600 for Kilbane but after doing more research I'm thinking he was from a BYB. As soon as he was ready, he was neutered. I have no intention to show him or anything else, he was brought into this home as a pet/friend. I would just like to get him certified for Therapy when he's old enough. I would like give back to my community by sharing his love, I've seen first hand how well it works in Nursing Homes.

I was given a bunch of grief because I had him "snipped". Everyone says how wonderful his temper is, how pretty his colors are and how much money I could make. My response to them is that there is so much more to it that that, and I don't have the time, money nor knowledge. After thinking about it there isn't much of a "profit" for a caring Breeder. I simply base my opinion on how much money I've spent on Vet bills these first 4 months of having Kilbane. Hence I'll leave the breeding to folks like Draymia.

All you have to do is search the Boxer Rescue web sites that are all over the US and you can just see how many sad faces there are waiting for new loving homes which is why our next one will be a rescue, actually all of them from now on will be.

 

[bremle]

And I, conversely, am delighted to see that there are so many responsible breeders out there

Has it not occured to you that the dogs that are sold as pets, on spay neuter contracts, are not breeding quality? That is *why* they're on spay/neuter contracts. If they were show potential puppies (which is *less* than breeding potential), they wouldn't be being sold to pet homes. And pets homes should not be breeding (prostituting their dogs). I'm delighted that there are so many breeders taking steps to prevent the irresponsible and ignorant breeding of the dogs they porduce. You should appreciate that, not denigrate it.

So you should only breed show dogs and never allow the pet dogs to breed, are you a super model cause if not then you shouldnt be able to breed either, you see how that sounds, kinda judge mental i think. I'm not tryin to be rude but you all seem to only see one side of it, and that you can get more money for show dogs than you can get for pet quality which seems like you are in it for the money as well. Just how it sounds to me

 

[courtney323]

So you should only breed show dogs and never allow the pet dogs to breed, are you a super model cause if not then you shouldnt be able to breed either, you see how that sounds, kinda judge mental i think. I'm not tryin to be rude but you all seem to only see one side of it, and that you can get more money for show dogs than you can get for pet quality which seems like you are in it for the money as well. Just how it sounds to me

No, you need to show your dog to find out how he measures against the breed standard. That is the entire purpose of a dog show you know - to evaluate breeding stock. How do you plan to have your dog professionally evaluated if you don't show? How will you know whether or not he is a good example of the breed?

 

[boxerxbabe]

One good reason not to breed to get "pets" sits right in your local rescue. There are so many boxers that need homes, why do you need to breed more of them? Unless you are breeding to better the breed and breeding to get a dog closest to teh standard then you shouldn't breed. We do not need more pets! Yes there will be pet quality puppies when breeders breed, but thats fine. They are breeding to better the breed. They are looking fo rtheir next champion puppy. But when you breed just to make some puppies that are pets... why? What is the purpose of it? There are plenty of pet boxers out in the world already so why must you make more? If you aren't willing to spend the $700 or more dollars on a puppy from a breeder, then rescue a boxer. But I must say that if you aren't willing to spend the $700 will you be willing to spend a thousand or more dollars in teh first year with your puppy? Ok so that may not all make sense but thats what I think of it all.

 

[furrykidmom]

Bremle,

I am afraid you are the one missing the point.

You breed for perfect structure, health and temperment. If a dog is not breed quality then why breed it? You cannot expect an entire litter of show dogs. Pet quality dogs are sometimes sold for less money because they do not always meet the breed standard for one reason or another. You do not want to breed a dog that has health problems or poor bone structure. This may lead to other health problems down the line. The point is to strive for perfect health and structure as well as temperment.

This has nothing to do with human models. It has to do with preserving a breed standard. It has to do with trying to eliminate health problems that already plague the breed.

I has nothing to do with money. Breeding dogs usually costs more than what you actually take in from the pups. From standard vet care to expensive testing such as Holter monitoring, EKG's, thyroid testing, OFA, etc. Plus the expenses of raising a litter. Sometimes problems are encountered that add unknown costs. There is also the stud fee.

I am not a breeder and I do not show. However, I feel strongly that only people experienced in the breed that are breeding to meet Boxer Standard and are competing with their dogs to confirm that they are meeting standard should breed.

I am at work and I have to go. Could someone back me up here and also can someone post breed standard.

 

[boxerxbabe]

ARTICLE I
Breeding

1. Breed only with the intention of improving the breed.

General Appearance
The ideal Boxer is a medium-sized, square-built dog of good substance with short back, strong limbs, and short, tight-fitting coat. His well-developed muscles are clean, hard, and appear smooth under taut skin. His movements denote energy. The gait is firm yet elastic, the stride free and ground-covering, the carriage proud. Developed to serve as guard, working, and companion dog, he combines strength and agility with elegance and style. His expression is alert and his temperament steadfast and tractable. The chiseled head imparts to the Boxer a unique individual stamp. It must be in correct proportion to the body. The broad, blunt muzzle is the distinctive feature, and great value is placed upon its being of proper form and balance with the skull. In judging the Boxer first consideration is given to general appearance and overall balance. Special attention is then devoted to the head, after which the individual body components are examined for their correct construction, and the gait evaluated for efficiency.

I didn't quote all of teh breeding ethics just the one that is obviously the one we need to make clear... and there is the general appearance of a boxer according to the ABC standard. There is more but I just put down that much. If you would like to see the standard then you can go to the ABC's website or just do a search here on boxerworld.

 

[Alisha Mobley]

So you should only breed show dogs and never allow the pet dogs to breed,

No, just because a dog is shown doesn't mean it should be bred. Any Boxer that is AKC registered and unaltered can become a "show dog". When a breeder says such and such puppy is a "pet", they're saying those puppies don't fit the standard as closely as they should for breeding...there is something (or some things) about them the breeder does not want to risk being passed on. These puppies are placed as pets on s/n contracts. If you want to breed, make that clear to the breeder and they won't place a pet puppy with you.

are you a super model cause if not then you shouldnt be able to breed either, you see how that sounds, kinda judge mental i think.

Comparing humans reproducing to breeding dogs is comparing apples to oranges. No where near the same.

Each breed of dog has a standard that describes the perfect dog of that breed. The only way a breed can be preserved, is for breeders to strive to produce dogs that come as close as possible to their standard. If not, the characteristics that make up each breed will be lost. If the characteristics are lost, so is the breed.

What is it about a Boxer you love so much...the head piece, build, temperament? Without breeding to standard, these things will be lost. If a Boxer no longer has the temperament of a Boxer, should it still be considered a Boxer? What if the head looks like a Great Dane, should we still call it a Boxer? Bremle, where do you draw the line...how far from standard do you think it's ok for a "Boxer" to be and still be used to produce more "Boxers"?

I'm not tryin to be rude but you all seem to only see one side of it,

No, it seems to me you're the one seeing just one side of it.

and that you can get more money for show dogs than you can get for pet quality which seems like you are in it for the money as well. Just how it sounds to me

It's not cheap to properly breed a litter of puppies...chances are very slim any money will be made. Most breeders do charge more for their "show prospects" than they do their "pets" but most in a litter are sold as pets (one is quite lucky to get even 2 show/breeding prospects in an average sized litter...and if you consider most breeders will keep at least 1 breeding/show prospect from each litter, that leaves very few of those 'money making show pups' to be sold. ). Wouldn't it make more sense to say they're all "show potential" and charge the higher price if one was interested in trying to make money?

From one of your previous posts you said:

I'm sorry but i'm not going to pay 700.00 or more for you to tell me what i can and can not do with my dog.

I'm not sure you understand when you're dealing with a responsible breeder, you're not just purchasing a puppy...you're buying into their breeding program, one that if well established, has taken many years to get to where it is today. Do you honestly think a breeder that has spent many years building a program, building a reputation for their kennel, has put in an unlimited amount of time, effort and money should allow you to take off with one of their pups and do what you want with it? You honestly think you should be allowed to purchase a pet puppy (that evidently has characteristics the breeder does not feel should be passed on), breed it how ever you see fit to whatever you want and destroy the reputation and breeding program that breeder has spent so many years building? Imo, that's extremely selfish on your part.

As I said above, if you want to breed then make that clear to the breeder from the beginning. A responsible breeder isn't going to place a pet puppy in a breeding home. If the breeder feels you can be trusted to do things responsibly, chances are you'll be offered a show/breeding prospect *on a show/breeding contract*. If you truly want to breed for the right reasons, putting it all in writing shouldn't be a problem.

 

[furrykidmom]

The supermodel thing

Actually purebreed dogs are like supermodels. You are breeding for the best specimen.

As for people, technically most people in America are mutts. We are all immigrants from different nations many of which have wed and reproduced outside of our heritage. Some nationalities prefer/require their children to marry someone of the same nationality/religion. They remain purebred. They continue to look like someone of their national origin. Go to an Italian or Irish parade. I bet you can pick out the purebreds.

Your supermodel comparision just is not accurate for purebred dog breeding.

I said in one of my previous posts how important education is. I strongly encourage you to go to the book section of this site and find books to broaden your horizons on the breed. Volunteer with a local dog rescue or shelter. Don't go once. Spend a year volunteering with a shelter or rescue. I assure you it will help you to understand why breeders feel so strongly about spay/neuter contracts.

I do not know what your motives are for not wanting to sign a spay/neuter contract. If you truly do not plan to breed then why is it such a big deal. If you do plan to breed do yourself a favor and everyone else involved in your breed of choice--educate yourself first. Please, please, please.

I just cannot begin to explain how many animals are euthanized because of irresponsible breeding. I worked vet medicine for fifteen years and worked for an animal shelter as an assistant director. I have also worked with a few Boxer rescues. Having been there I understand. I do not think that you have walked in our shoes to understand the importance of spaying and neutering.

 

[boxerxbabe]

Ditto to everything Alisha and Furry said. The more you talk about not being able to breed teh dog you want and teh more you talk about breeding to make just pets....the more you sound like a BYB. You should read this article, the Top 6 Reasons people give to breed http://www.boxerworld.com/puppy/breeding/