Will I ever be able to go to the gym in the morning again?

[mygirlmollie]

Right now, he is actually in the crate about 20 hours a day, but that's part of the housetraining schedule he is on.

Good grief! There's only 24 hours in a day......no wonder he's barking.

He gets PLENTY of exercise.

HOW??? When he is only out of his crate 4 hours a day??

I don't mean to criticise, but crating 20 hours out of 24 is plain madness :eek: :confused:

I feel mean when Hannah is inside all day (due to bad weather) and hasn't had the chance to run crazy in the front yard as she pleases.

The poor pup needs more attention, guidence and companionship from you and far less crate time.

Wanda, Hannah & Jed.

 

[kflanaga]

Okay, I actually added it up, and it isn't 20, it's about 16. Believe me, I did my homework probably more than anybody in the world before getting a puppy (and continue to do my homework).

 

[JulieM]

Could you please let me know what books recommend 16-20 hours of crating a day for housetraining? I'll be adding them to my "not recommended" list.

Instead of crating when you're home, why not try the umbilical cord method? It lets the puppy be out and get much-needed activity, but also teaches you how to pay attention to the puppy so that you can know when he has to go out.

You have to count the overnight time as crate time. Just because he's sleeping doesn't mean he's not crated. My dogs get up and move around several times during the night. Why not let him sleep in your bedroom with you (a doggie bed on the floor, if you don't want him actually in your bed) with a baby gate across the doorway? It will make it much easier for you to wake up, take him out, and then put him in the crate to go to the gym. He's far less likely to object to being in the crate if he's had a good length of time out of it.

 

[Nicole510]

Which books are those?? I was an obedience instructor and also taught potty training class and never have I read in a book to crate a dog for 20 hours a day.

Since you've done so much research I'm sure you've also read about the different stages of a puppy's life and how they develop. Unless I've missed it you still haven't said how old your puppy is. 4 hours a day of interaction with you IS NOT ENOUGH.

Crate training a puppy as the sole means of house breaking IS NOT ENOUGH.

As was suggested in another post...how is he telling you he has to go to the bathroom? You're keeping him in a cage so he won't pee...IN THE CAGE.

You could have potty trained him in a week or 2 even if he had never seen the inside of a crate. I understand that you may not have been able to take time off from work but geez.

Congratulations on your research. It's nice to see that people do that prior to adding a new member to their family. But let me ask you this...if you and your spouse were to have children would you keep that child in a play pen or a crib 16-20 hours a day? I don't think you would. A puppy, at least to most of us on this board, is no different.

It is only my belief but if you don't get that puppy out of the crate you are going to have a socially inept dog.

Please, give us a list of the books that you've read. I think we would all like to see what they're about.

 

[Scrapper's Mom]

Sorry, Kflanaga, puppies just require a LOT of time and patience. You might have to forego the morning gym workouts for a time until your pup gets older. The first thing he is going to want, when he hears you are awake, is to get up and play with you. Also, to go out and potty and to get some food. And you need to allow just some plain quiet holding time, when the puppy can sleep on your lap or in your arms on the couch. That's how the bond between you is started and strengthened, over these formative months. Also, being out of the crate, like Andie said, helps the pup work on his housetraining - instead of just not wanting to go because he is in the crate, he learns to recognize the signs that he needs to go and learn how to communicate that to you. I know puppies are a lot of work, but you just have to bear through it. Maybe you can go to the gym another time, or have someone come in and babysit and play with the puppy while you go do your workout. At least until he gets a little older.
When Scrapper was a baby, he would wake up at 5AM and have to go out to pee. Then he would eat, play for a while, and fall back to sleep next to me on the couch while I watched Animal Planet (and fell back to sleep myself.) But my mornings were definitely dedicated to baby Scrapper at that age.

 

[kflanaga]

I'm sorry if...

.....I gave the impression that I was somehow unwilling to alter my schedule to accomodate my new addition. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm willing, able, had planned on it, and have been doing it!

I guess the question I wanted answered was this: To those of you who have boxers, if you were in this situation where you wanted to get up and go to the gym at 5 AM (and your dog is on a schedule to get up around 7 regardless), would your puppies/dogs allow it? I don't mean immediately. I mean eventually.

As for my housebreaking schedule, I'm going to have to stand by it. My vet recommmended Kalstone's "How to Housetrain your dog in seven days", and he has several schedules. I'm following one of those nearly to the minute. The schedule is for 3-6 month old puppies, and my vet said it would probably be a bit more than seven days (and today is day seven, so I'm quite sure he was right!). If he is housebroken a month from now, I will consider myself quite lucky. I guage how housebreaking is going by how often I buy Nature's Miracle.

As an aside, are feelings of being overwhelmed by a new puppy normal? I mean, my wife and I went to a movie yesterday afternoon, and Simon was in the crate for about two hours. As soon as the credits rolled, I was jumping out of the chair and prepared to sprint the two blocks to the apartment!

 

[kflanaga]

Also, I must be doing SOMETHING right. Simon has NEVER outlasted me in a play session. I was all prepared to play for 90 minutes this morning, and he was on the couch asleep within 30 (and this is right after waking up in the morning!). Is this unusual? I can NEVER keep him awake later than 9:30, which may be why he is wound up in the morning. I've tried everything, but once those eyes begin to droop, he's out for the night.

 

[JulieM]

Puppies nap frequently, but I'd wager that if he was not in his crate he'd be up after half an hour or so, ready to go again.

Thanks for the name of the book. Does it explain how you can associate not peeing in the crate to not peeing in the house? (I agree with Nicole, that the two are separate and distinct things.)

My dogs are quite accustomed to following my schedule - varied as it is - and have no problems going to their crates in the morning, even those days that I leave at 4 or 5 a.m. for a dog show. They're out of their crates more than 4 hours a day, though, and all night, which makes a big difference.

 

[Nicole510]

Here's a thought...maybe spending 16-20 hours a day in a crate is making him lethargic?

You said you've read 'several' books and done 'more research' than almost anyone prior to getting your puppy. Several of us have asked for the names of these books out of interest because obviously none of us agree with the advice you've been given. Can you give us a couple more titles?

I have recently read 'The Mentally Sound Dog', which was written, I believe about 8 years ago, that stated a puppy being crated for 8 hour stretches would be necessary at times but it would be better if someone you knew could let the puppy out for a break every 4 hours or so. In Kflanga's defense it did state that 16 hours in a crate would not be unusual. I, personally, find this ridiculous.

Kflanga...let me apologize, for myself only, for seeming harsh (although you're not seeming to take it to heart). In no way can I understand why on earth you would be home and choose to crate your puppy as a potty training method. Crates are used for potty training, etc. when you do not have the ability to be home and use some other method, of which there are several. I'm sorry that this is the information you have been given by a medical professional.

There are several methods you could have chosen and used the crate as a back-up or a supplemental tool. It is my firm belief that you are going to have a socially inept puppy that has not bonded to your family as it should have. At his age he should be out and about with you as often as possible, meeting other dogs/animals and people, not stuck in a crate.

But, as you are not willing to change your methods, good luck. I hope this works out exactly as you've been told it would.

Kflanga, to answer your question, I don't think that you understand. You're dog is on YOUR schedule. A dog does not 'get up' when you decide it's time for him to get up...ie. 0700. If you get up at 0500 you can expect your dog to get up to. And once he's up he needs to go to the restroom. Crating him isn't taking away his urge to pee. What you're doing is forcing him to hold it so he doesn't soil his cage.

A month from now and you'll think yourself lucky? My dogs have all been housebroken in as little as 2 weeks. That was 2 weeks of being home, catching their signals and taking them outside. They were also on a schedule...they were taken out 1/2 hour after they ate, drank, played and immediately after they woke up.

 

[Scrapper's Mom]

I also agree with Nicole - you can housetrain a pup in barely over a week, or at least give them a really good start, when you are able to catch them sniffing around and take them right out, tell them a command, ("go potty") instead of them being in the crate most of the time. Of course, there will be some accidents at first, but you'd be surprised how fast they get the idea. Tiny little Scrapper was scratching at the back door just five days after we brought him home. Oh there were still plenty of mistakes after that, but once they get the idea, it's just refinement you are working on.

Yes, eventually, as your dog gets older, it will settle in somewhat to the daily routine of your household. But I think you can always count on the dog getting up when you do, no matter what time it's going to be. And also, as the dog gets older, the idea is to need to use the crate less and less til someday you might realize you forgot all about it.

BTW, don't ever leave a dog in the crate with its collar on.