time out

[buddy'smom]

I also tend to disagree here. If you are putting the dog in the crate, wordlessly, then you are not teaching the dog that what it has done is unacceptable. Where does the word no come in here if they have chewed your good shoes apart, or nipped at your child? If the dog does associate the two, then you are training him /her that the crate means I have done something wrong.
Time out means that the dog realizes that it has misbehaved, and learns that the time out, or ignoring, is the consequence. Doing it your way, wordlessly as you say, gives no chance, as I see it, for any association between action and consequence.

 

[JulieM]

Time outs are not used when the dog has done one thing wrong (chewing a shoe or nipping one time). They are used when the dog is behaving in an inappropriate manner - for example, barking continuously or rough play. You do use a marker - "AH!AH!" or "Too bad!" _before_ you take the dog to his crate. You do not command the dog into his crate, nor do you, as many people do, scold the dog as you are putting him in his crate. That is what I meant by wordlessly. The dog learns that the consequence of playing too roughly is removal from what the dog most wants - interaction with you. (You must, of course, be clear and consistent with what level of play is considered too rough, or the dog won't learn anything.)

The problem with giving alternate commands - sit-stay or down-stay - is that the dog is then doing what it is supposed to do, and should be praised for it. The dog learns that the consequence of playing too roughly is the opportunity to perform a job. It still is able to be with you, although not necessarily in the sense that it wants to be.

Julie

 

[Krikkit]

Originally posted by JulieM
Using the crate for a time-out is not the same as using a crate for punishment. When you put the dog in a crate for a time-out, you wordlessly and unemotionally take the dog, put it in the crate, and leave. When the time-out is over you wordlessly and unemotionally return to the dog, let it out of the crate, and continue what you were doing before the time-out occured. The dog is not commanded to go in the crate, it is not yelled at - nothing. That means there is nothing negative to associate with the crate.

This is a very effective training tool, something we use (sparingly), in our agility classes. Occassionaly dogs get a bit to excited and act up when in class (they are not being 'bad', 'dominant' or whatever, they just get a bit hyper from excitement) - this unemotional giving of time out works wonders. It has to be done totally without any feelings from the handler. A 15 -20 minute timeout calms the dog down, gives the handler time to calm down, and then they can come back out and start again

Amy is our hyper girl - very high drives - gets wound up very easily. An 'unemotional' time out in the crate (or generally just not being allowed outside the house), calms her down and does not allow her stress levels to build to an unacceptable level. She gets a time out for her well being as well as ours.

I never, ever crate the dogs as 'punsihment' for misbehavior. Of course our Boxers are the most perfect Boxers in the entire world and are never naughty anyway

 

[Jaelle]

I really think like you JulieM. My mother'S Golden Retriever is having a time out in the crate when she's too excited and that nothing can be done to stop her. It's a timeout like you said, no yelling, or nothing like that. When she do something wrong, it's more a punishment with the tone of voice and a command (like sit and stay). That's her trainer that recommand this. Be very carefull the way you use the crate (everybody), I had a dog before and we only knew that's it's good to have a crate without knowing how to use it and we used it for punishment and at last, we gave the crate away because the dog was trying to bite us each time we wanted to put him in his crate, even if it was not for punishment (what was a very logical comportement...)

 

[Brutus and Amaya's Mom]

I find that my two often need "naps". On the weekend they are out of the crate all day and play away. They tend to get a bit cranky around 2:00. I know they are used to sleeping all day and a short 1-2 hour nap in the crate does them wonders. It calms them down and gives them some time to unwind.

 

[TClarke]

Kids vs. Dogs

By profession, I'm a teacher. When I hear parents and other teachers talking about time out with students it's a means by which to punish the student by giving him a chance to "think" about what he/she did wrong. Sometimes it's a way to calm a more physical studnet, but I think it's different with a dog.

We hear again and again in dog training books that IMMEDIATE reaction from the parent is absolutely necessary to get the point across to the dog that a specific behavior is unacceptable. In cases like chewing a shoe we're told punishing when you come home and find a torn up shoe does nothing, BUT punishing when the dog is in the act of chewing the shoe is appropriate and will get the point across.

By time out with Trixie, I mean "GIVE HER THE CHANCE TO CALM DOWN AND GATHER HER WHITS BECAUSE SHE'S NOT EXHIBITING MUCH SELF CONTROL." If she steals my shoe, it's a NO and usually that's the end of it. If she's playing "doggie pin ball" and bouncing off walls and going insane, sometimes NO or a SIT just gets her more excited (she's getting better at this with age though). Scooping her up and putting her in the crate with a CALM DOWN command and leaving her there for about a minute with GOOD GIRL praise when she settles is about all she needs to get herself back together. In this particular example she also gets a LONG walk outside because she obviously had a lot more energy to burn than either of us realized.

I agree that if she's punished when she's in the crate a negative association could develop, but I think using the crate sparingly when she really just needs a cozy place with a bit less stimulation is very helpful.