The pup I chose almost didn't make it, should I be concerned?

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NicknDallas

Boxer Pal
We saw a breeder this weekend and took a look at some of the puppies. We chose the one that seemed to be the most introverted and became comfortable in our arms. After seeing the parents and asking all my questions I decided to give a deposit. As we were signing the papers the breeder tells me the pup we chose "almost didn't make it" during birth and that she had to rub the pup until it started breathing, or for a lack of a better word, living.

Should I be concerned at all? The pup looked completely healthy and played with the other pups with lots of energy. Anyone experience this before?

Thanks!
 
MikaMay

MikaMay

Boxer Booster
What your breeder did is basically common. As a breeder (of Malts), we've had to *save* many pups....and they've all done great. It's basically a newborn getting fluid in their lungs and needing help to breathe. Several years ago, we had one little girl that my husband worked on for 45 minutes!! but she made it and had no health problems, ever. Our vet at the time said we were lucky there was no brain damage, but only because hubby worked on her for so long. Generally, it takes a very few minutes to get one going. And, while this may sound weird to some, we have found that if you're going to lose a puppy, it's generally in the first 3 days of life, as that is the most critical time for newborns. Hope this helps....I personally would not be concerned.
 
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NicknDallas

Boxer Pal
Thanks for replying. My girlfriend told me the same thing however I wanted to hear other people's opinions through the forum. This pup took 30 mins to join the world. But its a relief to hear she'll be okay. Thanks again
 
BxrMommieNAZ

BxrMommieNAZ

Boxer Insane
My only concern is that you said you saw the parents...I would assume meaning both and where it isn't a definite backyard breeding deal it sends up a big red flag when the "breeders" own both of the parents. Have you made sure to ask all of the right questions about health testing, heart monitoring, temperament testing, showing conformations, etc to make sure this pup is coming from a responsible reputable breeder? That would be my #1 concern. #2 would be that it took 30 minutes for the pup to come back to life. A few minutes is one thing 30 seems like an awful lot for their brain to go without oxygen. Not saying it's a definite that it would have brain issues (as the other poster had one down 45 minutes that ended up okay), but I would say there would be a good possibility.

Good luck.
 
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NicknDallas

Boxer Pal
BxrMommieNAZ said:
My only concern is that you said you saw the parents...I would assume meaning both and where it isn't a definite backyard breeding deal it sends up a big red flag when the "breeders" own both of the parents. Have you made sure to ask all of the right questions about health testing, heart monitoring, temperament testing, showing conformations, etc to make sure this pup is coming from a responsible reputable breeder? That would be my #1 concern. #2 would be that it took 30 minutes for the pup to come back to life. A few minutes is one thing 30 seems like an awful lot for their brain to go without oxygen. Not saying it's a definite that it would have brain issues (as the other poster had one down 45 minutes that ended up okay), but I would say there would be a good possibility.

Good luck.
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I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean about the breeders owning both parents. They own 4 adult boxers and the ones they let me meet were the mom and dad who the pup came from. Why shouldn't a breeder own both parents?

I also considered that 30 mins is long which is why I'm asking for opinions.

The questions I asked were about the health of the parents and if she had proof. She said no but they have never had problems with them. They have been breeding boxers for 20yrs so I assume they know what they're doing when it comes to healthy pups. She gave me a 1yr written guarantee also.
 
ehayes21

ehayes21

Boxer Insane
NicknDallas said:
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean about the breeders owning both parents. They own 4 adult boxers and the ones they let me meet were the mom and dad who the pup came from. Why shouldn't a breeder own both parents?

I also considered that 30 mins is long which is why I'm asking for opinions.

The questions I asked were about the health of the parents and if she had proof. She said no but they have never had problems with them. They have been breeding boxers for 20yrs so I assume they know what they're doing when it comes to healthy pups. She gave me a 1yr written guarantee also.
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1 year guarantee really means nothing when it comes to the health of a boxer. Most health problems usually crop up around the age of 2. What proof did this breeder have as far as the health testing they did? Did you see echo and holter results for the heart? Did you see thyroid results? Did you see hip results?

The reason there is usually a red flag the breeder has both parent is because a good breeders aim in producing a litter is to improve on what you already have. You usually have to go outside your own house to find a suitable match for your dog - not just throwing two dogs together. From what your saying, it sounds like this is a backyard breeder your dealing with.

Here is a little more info on what they are and why they are a problem:

Back Yard Breeder - BYB

The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses by © Denna Pace 2001

Here is what your breeder should be testing for:

Boxer health testing
 
BxrMommieNAZ

BxrMommieNAZ

Boxer Insane
NicknDallas said:
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean about the breeders owning both parents. They own 4 adult boxers and the ones they let me meet were the mom and dad who the pup came from. Why shouldn't a breeder own both parents?

I also considered that 30 mins is long which is why I'm asking for opinions.

The questions I asked were about the health of the parents and if she had proof. She said no but they have never had problems with them. They have been breeding boxers for 20yrs so I assume they know what they're doing when it comes to healthy pups. She gave me a 1yr written guarantee also.
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I absolutely agree with ehayes. I got a 3 year health guarantee with my pup just as a comparison. Given what you have stated here the folks you are dealing with are backyard breeders and my recommendation would be to find a reputable breeder. If they have not shown their dogs in the ring to prove they are the best of the best, if they have not done heart holtering, thyroid tests, temperament tests and can show you copies of these tests from reputable specialists then you're absolutely dealing with a backyard breeder and you should RUN in the opposite direction. Add to that that the pup was down for 30 minutes and I'd say you have a very good recipe for disaster at some point in the future. Just because they've been doing this for 20 years does not make them responsible or reputable breeders unfortunately.
 
whiskers

whiskers

Boxer Insane
Owning both parents in and of itself would not concern me. The border collie breeder I am getting a puppy from, a couple of her litters, she owns both the parents. The cross I am expecting a pup from, she does not own the male so she's not limiting herself to just her dogs, but it does happen.... that info is just a piece of the puzzle, I wouldn't form an opinion about any breeder just based on that. On the flip side, just because they used a male from somewhere else, does not mean they are responsible.

As the others mentioned a 1 year guarantee isn't worth much. It's a way to cover their butts, 1 year sounds nice but most problems aren't going to show up that soon. My BYB dog came with a 1 year guarantee, and just DAYS shy of it expiring, she was diagnosed with luxating patellas and legg-perthes disease. We got our money back (which was tough to get, she actually wanted us to give her Lucy back) but that doesn't do much good when surgery costs thousands of dollars, and in the meantime we have a puppy who is in pain and isn't healthy at all. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't go to anyone who offers any less than a 3 year guarantee. And make sure you know exactly what's in that guarantee.

I'm not going to tell you not to get this dog. That's up to you. But there's definitely a lot that needs to be taken into consideration.
 
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NicknDallas

Boxer Pal
Thank you everyone for your input. You provided some strong points and clearly you all stress the importance of finding a breeder who truly cares for the breed.

I've chosen to go ahead with this pup and I'll explain why. I've voiced my concerns to her, explaining that I don't feel completely comfortable buying a puppy from her because she hasn't tested the parents for hereditary diseases(other than blood work). She promised me that I will not be disappointed and that none of her dogs have ever had problems. She also said that they make sure to get their pups(for breeding) from sources with strong healthy lines with no issues. She gave me past references to call who had bought pups from the grandmother and father to my pup. She extended my guarantee on congenital and genetics from 1yr to 2years as long as I use her recommended dog food.

She isn't one of the byb's that breed for the hell of it to make some cash and she has a lot of experience with boxers. Her family including children socialize with the puppies from the time they're born. She also offers after sales support for as long as I need. There are a lot of good things about the breeder.

The unfortunate part is that there are better breeders out there who test their dogs and that's the only downfall to her. What she's telling me can't be backed up by papers that prove its true.

I'm not concerned about the half hour it took to get the pup going.

Hopefully there won't be any problems in the future. At least I have another year to find out.
 
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