The 3 B's (Biting, Barking and Begging)...& a P (Pee)!

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TypeAMommy

Boxer Booster
Here's one of those "I've read all the books and posts and know what do IN THEORY but now what about in REALITY" questions:

1. PEEING

Koolba is 8 weeks old...and we've had her 2 weeks. She is crated part of the day...and for now, is sleeping in bed with my husband and I. I am considering banishing her to the boxer box since she's peed on the bed a couple times, and I know I need to do it sooner rather than later or she'll be too used to bed. The main problem is there's snow here and she hates it. She desperately does NOT want to go outside, and I never know if she really doesn't have to go, or if she just wants to go in. She's very good about peeing and pooping right when she wakes up...but when I take her out after eating (30 min) or after playing or just when I think it's been awhile, I'm unclear if she really doesn't have to go. Especially when she pees, but doesn't poop, I feel I'm sending her a mixed message if I force her to stay out rather than rewarding her for peeing by bringing her in (i.e. "you've done what i wanted...") I bought her a sweater, but her feet freeze, even when it's cold without snow...I think she'd be more distracted by boots than by shivering...I hate to use wee wee pads because then you have to break that habit too! I've had people tell me not to feel bad about crating and just to do it whenever no one is directly staring at her, but I have to tell you, that would be too often for my taste! HELP!

2. BITING
She's learning quickly how hard is too hard, and we're substituting chew toys for hands whenever possible, but she still plays too rough with my son. (3) I'm always right there, but what can I do to discourage the puppy play sooner? Currently, I hold her mouth shut and say sharply "no bite." I've heard you should fold their lip under their own teeth??

3 & 4. BEGGING & BARKING

I have a feeling she was fed people food at the breeder...she will NOT stop begging (and barking and whining and jumping) while we're eating. I believe in NO table scraps (I had a small dog die of pancreatitis and the vet told me it can be brought out by table scrap diets). I make sure she's not hungry at our meal times, but it doesn't seem to be working...let me guess: crate her?

THANKS!
 
Tulsa-Dan

Tulsa-Dan

Your Friendly Moderator
1. 8 weeks is still too young to expect too much in the way of housebreaking. I agree that wee wee pads are much more hassle than they are worth. And it only serves to confuse the dog if you have to retrain them. I tried this with Maggie and it was a disaster. I ended up just taking her out and forgetting about the pads. Works fine now.

As for the weather, I have the same problem with Maggie (now 7 months) in the rain (she does love the snow but finds it harder to poop since her poopie place is usually covered in snow up to her little butt!). But, I forced the issue. I just kept her out in it until she peed and pooped on her usual schedule (when it isn't raining). I also employ treats. I always carry treats and give her one and praise her when she piddles or poops outside. Now, she'll piddle on command for me. So we always get one last piddle in before coming back into the house. Fewer accidents that way. But by now, she's going 5 to 6 hours in the day time in between trips outside if necessary (I usually take her out every 3 to 4 hours however). Give it some time. Your dog is still very young and doesn't have total muscle control over her bladder. This is especially true for female puppies as their bladder muscles mature slower than males for some reason according to my vet. At any rate, when Maggie was that young, I made sure to keep her outside for at least 20 minutes so that she'd pee twice and poop at least once. It seemed to work pretty well and we didn't have many accidents after I got on the schedule and started with the reward method of training.

2. Biting is difficult. What I made sure to do with Maggie was to end play immediately when she bit me. I would do as you do, gently putting my hand around her muzzle and saying "NO BITE" but then I would end play immediately, go into another room and ignore her for about 5 minutes or until she calmed down. This seemed to work better than anything. They HATE being ignored. She got the idea very quickly that if she bit me, she didn't get to play anymore. It worked quite well.

One thing to remember with children in the equation is that the children must use the same methods as well. If the dog is playing (even with your supervision) with the child and it bites (although it is just playing), the same method must be used by the child. The child must say "NO BITE" and then stop play and ignore the dog too. The dog must learn that the child is NOT a littermate and it is also Alpha to the dog and must be treated the same way as the dog treats you, as Alpha master. This is very important. You can't let the dog feel that she and the child are equals or then she'll begin to try and dominate the child. It is their natural instinct to do this. So, you must make the dog understand that children are not littermates and are superior to the dog and the dog must obey the children as well as the adults. Easier said than done with children, whose tendency is to run away when they get bit a little too hard, and then the dog tries to bite even more because she thinks its a game. It is hard.

3. Begging. After training Maggie in Sit/Stay and Down/Stay, she MUST sit or be down at my feet when I eat. If she doesn't lie down when I'm eating, she is banished from the dining room until I'm finished eating. If she obeys and lies quietly at my feet, then she gets a good doggie treat when I've finished eating and lots of praise for being such a good girl! I too am opposed to giving dogs people food and table scraps. This works pretty well for me. If you have crate trained, then you can put the dog in the crate for meal time. Others may suggest that you always eat first, then feed the dog. Another Alpha dog training method. I don't know if that works or not. It didn't seem to affect Maggie the way it was supposed to. She was till whining and begging at my feet until we got the down command learned and used in this context. No we have no problems at meal time, no matter whether I am eating at the table or in front of the television. She always lays down at my feet until I'm finished.

Good luck. May I recommend one more book, even if you've read them all? The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. Buy it, read it and then truly enjoy teaching your dog new tricks. It has proved invaluable to me in training Maggie and I am so thrilled to have discovered this reward method of training. It really has worked exceedingly well for us.

Keep us posted on your progress.
 
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TypeAMommy

Boxer Booster
Thanks!!

Thanks for all the great advice, Dan!

It's really interesting what you said about children and dogs...because that's exactly what I thought...and why I asked our soon to be new dog trainer (starting puppy class Tuesday) whether it would be okay for Jarod to come along. She said in her experience, children are ALWAYS litter mates in the eyes of dogs until they're 6-8 years old...and that they should never be trained to be alpha. What she said is that my husband and I should be alpha, and she should obey us by not hurting Jarod...I feel this presents the danger of "I'll obey when I can get caught only," however...I mean I MEAN to supervise every interaction, but let's be realistic! So I'm pretty confused on that subject...but better safe than sorry!! Jarod is doing really well with "No bite" and he does not tolerate being nipped. I'm trying really hard to teach him to be "gentle but firm" with her... he really gets into coming outside with us to "pee" and tells her "good girl!" when she goes...he even tells me she has to go when I know she doesn't because HE enjoys "training" her! Thanks again!
 
Krikkit

Krikkit

Boxer Insane
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TClarke

Boxer Pal
TypeA Daddy Responds to TypeA Mommy

Trixie is just 11 weeks old, so I know what you're going through all too well!

When it comes to pottying Trixie hated going outside in the snow. All the books say get her out there 30 minutes after she eats because she'll be ready to go by then. Not my little baby! Trixie would pee right away, but it was so cold outside that she really couldn't think about pooping. I would take her in and play really hard for about 1/2 an hour and then notice her kind of start sniffing around and getting that poopy twinkle in her eye. We'd go right outside and I'd say, "Get busy" and she'd make her little pile.

In the mornings she'll pee right away, eat, and then signal she's ready to make a pile by going to the door and sitting in front of it.

As for the snow? Trixie hated the cold because the house was so warm, but about a week ago we had a warm weekend and she learned outside can be a lot of fun. Now she loves to go outside because she knows if she "gets busy" she can be rewarded with praise and a little 1/2 block run.


Meal time was really hard for a while here too. I think she would cry and whine more because she wanted to play and be cuddled than because she wanted to eat my food. I realized the kitchen floor was really cold, so I started bringing a pillow and chew toy down to the kitchen. She would curl up, chew, then start to whine again, but I just kept ignoring her and now she's got really good manners while I eat. She knows she'll get hers soon enough.


I was confused about when to crate and when not to crate too. I have to tell you I think it's saved my carpeting a lot of messes. On weekdays, Trixie gets crated as I'm leaving for work, gets out for my lunch break for a eat/play session, goes back in, and then is out from the time I get home until bed time. I keep the crate right at the foot of my bed. Many of the books suggest keeping the crate in the kitchen, but my kitchen is way too cold and I'm usually upstairs. Plus, I wanted the crate in the same room with me at night.

On the weekend, she's really only ever in the crate to sleep at night and if I have to leave and can't take her with me. The crate door is ALWAYS OPEN when she's not in it though... just in case she wants to go in. Most of the time she just wants to be right with me and will sleep almost anywhere if she gets tired.

To keep her in the same room with me when she's not in the crate I use a baby gate and throw a few toys on the floor. Watching her closely and taking her out at regular intervals was really key to her success with pottying.

Being let out of the crate signals her it's time to go outside. She's learned this SO well that when I arrive home, she's standing in the crate with a toy in her mouth. I open the door, she drops the toy and nearly explodes with excitement. Then she picks up the toy and leads me down the stairs and through the house to the outside door.

She's to the point now where I purposfully don't use the baby gate and say, "Trixie Come" every now and then if she gets out of my sight. She comes flying to me and almost can't stop once she gets here, but she's usually in the room with me or right out in the hallway where I can see her. Right now she's sleeping under the desk chair as I type.


When I had trouble with her not pooping outside in 20 degree weather with snow, I had to think to myself, "Would you want to be pooping under a bush in this weather?!"


The biting is getting better, but it's been my main pet peeve. I'm very consistent about it, but some other people in my house aren't so it makes for a constant battle. Especially when my friends, who own a Silky Terrier, say, "Oh she's just playing, it's cute." I just want to say, "Your silky is very cute, but is full grown and Trixie is bigger than he is already... do you think it'll be cute for Trixie to bite you when she's 60 lbs?"

Instead, I just politely assert myself and try to keep consistent with her. She's learning, but that's been an ongoing battle.

Good luck. I have to tell you I love your screen name! It reminds me of myself so much it's scary. It gets easier! The first two weeks were really tiring, but now I'm getting used to her and she's used to me and my expectations. Brooklyn Dan and other boxer buddies are much more level headed than I tend to be, their suggestions have really helped get rid of some of my Type A worries. :) :) :)

[Edited by TClarke on 01-22-2001 at 02:50 AM]
 
Tulsa-Dan

Tulsa-Dan

Your Friendly Moderator
Re: Thanks!!

Originally posted by TypeAMommy
Thanks for all the great advice, Dan!

It's really interesting what you said about children and dogs...because that's exactly what I thought...and why I asked our soon to be new dog trainer (starting puppy class Tuesday) whether it would be okay for Jarod to come along. She said in her experience, children are ALWAYS litter mates in the eyes of dogs until they're 6-8 years old...and that they should never be trained to be alpha. What she said is that my husband and I should be alpha, and she should obey us by not hurting Jarod...I feel this presents the danger of "I'll obey when I can get caught only," however...I mean I MEAN to supervise every interaction, but let's be realistic! So I'm pretty confused on that subject...but better safe than sorry!! Jarod is doing really well with "No bite" and he does not tolerate being nipped. I'm trying really hard to teach him to be "gentle but firm" with her... he really gets into coming outside with us to "pee" and tells her "good girl!" when she goes...he even tells me she has to go when I know she doesn't because HE enjoys "training" her! Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Well, to me, your trainer just proved my point. They do think children are their littermates. But where I disagree is that you need to teach them to obey the children as well as the adults. I totally concur with you that what the trainer's method would do is tell the dog it needs to obey children only when they get caught NOT obeying. And if they can get away with it, they will. I think it is dangerous to let any puppy assume a human is a littermate, especially a child. And I don't think the age of the child has much to do with the PUPPY learning who's higher up in the chain either. It has to do with the CHILD and the CHILD's ability to communicate and respond appropriately to the dog. A dog is a dog is a dog. They can't help it. But a child can learn how to relate differently to a dog in order to have the dog respond in certain ways.

It sounds to me as if you are doing the right thing and it won't take long before your Jarod and the puppy are so bonded and well behaved with each other, you won't believe it. You sound like an excellent mommie to me. Keep up the good work.
 
T

TypeAMommy

Boxer Booster
Kleenex please...

Dan,

I think I'm gonna cwy! :) Thanks! Koolba did the FUNNIEST thing while out pooping just now! As I've said, she hates snow...and had just finally given in to the idea of pooping in it...and she gets all balanced on her front feet and spreads her little back legs...touching them just ever-so gently into the wet white stuff...and BOOM! She tips right over onto her nose and face plants in the snow! I felt bad because all I could do was laugh my *&^%^^ off!! So the little trooper got back up and pooped anyway...got big hugs and treats and is now drying off across my arm (hard to type this way). I wonder if she'll realize she can't be a lap dog at 60-70 lbs?!
 
Tulsa-Dan

Tulsa-Dan

Your Friendly Moderator
That's so funny. Poor dog. I know they hate to be laughed at, but sometimes you just can't help it. That is so hysterical! :D

It took some time with Maggie too, especially in the rain. But, she's getting much better and used to it. Problem is we don't have rain that often so we don't have that much "practice time."

Keep up the good work. And yes, boxers will stay that silly and full of puppy fun their whole lives. That's one of their best qualities, I think.
 
D

DT

Boxer Buddy
typeamommy

I just have to add-my husband snow blows a long pathway in the back yard (and a big area by the door)so Sidney and Gus will have some flat ground. The first time I saw him doing this I thought he was crazy snowblowing the yard! They can run around all they want but if it's just a quick outside-they just walk down their path. The things we do!
 
T

TypeAMommy

Boxer Booster
Motivation

Well, the desire to hang out with her "big sister" is really helping Koolba get over her snow phobia. Our 10 year old rescue chow/golden mix has really taken to the new pup, and is busy introducing her to all the other dogs in the surrounding yards. They pace the fence, tails wagging..and Kooba trails behind bounding through the snow. It's really cute...and has helped her get over it all!
 
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