I've been on the RAW diet now for about a month or so. Abbie's diet mainly consist of Chicken Back, Turkey Necks (tried wings but made her very very very sick), shoulder meat, organs (hearts and gizzards), eggs, sometimes veggies and occasionally yogurt and oatmeal. First of all, She loves her food! But sometimes she tries to swallow the meat w/bones whole and will throw up the food and re eat it, which is fine but its a little scary. What I'm concerned about is how often she is sick now compared to when we had her on kibble. Recently I gave her some yogurt and the very next day she was throwing up constantly with diahrea. I thought it may of been the yogurt but I know she has had it in the past. Her stools are very inconsistant and i notice diahrea or vomiting more often than before. The most recently issue was with the yogurt so I'm thinking i need to cut it out completly. But I dont change up her food too much. She'll have backs and necks most of the time and meat and organs maybe 2-3 times a week if that. Am I doing something wrong? My husband wants to go back to kibble. Is that the best choice? Are there kibbles out there that are worth putting my dog on? Any help is appreciated
RAW diet might be making my dog sick? LONG
- Thread starter mmcnaney
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What you're feeding sounds rather boney - as in, not enough meat to balance it. Things like chicken backs are fine to include as part of a diet, but they usually have precious little meat on there really. Same goes for necks. And wings even more so (they're the hardest part of a chicken carcass for any dog to cope with, being almost exclusively bone and skin, and very dense bone at that).
Anyway, I'm wondering if the excess of bone might have something to do with your problems there. Bone normally is what keeps stools firm, but when it's excessive, sometimes the body over-compensates and you get watery stools. Perhaps it may be worth trying her on a mix of backs (or necks) and shoulder meat as the staple, rather than just feeding meat 2-3 times a week?
Anyway, I'm wondering if the excess of bone might have something to do with your problems there. Bone normally is what keeps stools firm, but when it's excessive, sometimes the body over-compensates and you get watery stools. Perhaps it may be worth trying her on a mix of backs (or necks) and shoulder meat as the staple, rather than just feeding meat 2-3 times a week?
As a broad rule, about 70% of everything you feed should be raw meaty bones - and the emphasis there is on meaty. RMBs should be at least 50% meat, and preferably more. It's not meaty if it's mostly bone or cartillage, as backs and necks are (so if you feed those, as many people do, you need to make up for it with boneless meat). So maximum 35% bone/cartillage then.
10-20% should be offal (I prefer closer to 20 than 10). And the remaining 10% would be made up of 'extras' such as eggs, fruit and veggies, and so forth.
There are a few variations on that theme, depending on the degree to which you feel fruit and veggies should be included in the diet.
10-20% should be offal (I prefer closer to 20 than 10). And the remaining 10% would be made up of 'extras' such as eggs, fruit and veggies, and so forth.
There are a few variations on that theme, depending on the degree to which you feel fruit and veggies should be included in the diet.
So what RMD's do you recommend? I bought a book called "Switching to Raw," and it mentioned 70% of the diet should be RMD but it never mentioned 50% of it should have meat on it. When I feed her "meat" only its usually some type of muscle meat. Should there be more chicken? Any suggestions would help. Also, how do you get your dog to eat the egg shell? I make it small but she still seems to pick it out.
LOL - the definition of "RMB" is raw meaty bone. If the book didn't mention what proportion should be meat, it does at least imply that it needs to be substantial (or else it's just a bone, not a meaty bone). It is a bit difficult to say percentages, of course - since that's going to vary according to which boney part it is you're feeding.
A better way to look at things, perhaps, is to say that you're trying to emulate the feeding of whole carcasses. You might not feed whole carcasses (and with the possible exception of chickens and rabbits, few of us ever do) but the proportion of meat to bone to offal should approximate that which the dog would have consumed had he been given a whole carcass over several meals.
So. How much meat versus bone would your dog be consuming if you bought a whole chicken and cut it up into meal sized bits? The answer, clearly, is a heck of a lot more than comes on chicken frames and necks
Now that doesn't mean don't feed necks and frames - they're an extremely useful and cheap food item. But it DOES mean that if you feed a lot of those items, you *must* add meat to ensure that the dog is getting adequate nutrition.
Does this make reasonable sense to you? All parts of a carcass are valuable nutrition for a dog, you just need to ensure that what you feed does, over time, include or approximate all of them.
Actually buying whole chickens can be a very good and economical way to go. Commercially raised chickens do have a bit of an excess of meat, so that whole chicken can feed both the dog and people. There are plenty of raw feeders (myself included sometimes) who go out and get a whole chicken, take the breast meat off for themselves, and then cut the rest up into meal-sized portions for the dog. Since you often find that buying chicken breasts costs as much (or more) than the entire chicken, doing it this way effectively means that your dog may be eating "for free"...
So that's one option. Another is to buy the necks and frames - which is also an attractive option since they're cheap (sometimes even free). Then add meat (be it chicken, beef, lamb, pork or whatever is cheap at the time) in an amount that approximates the flesh that would have been on the carcass if not removed.
A further option is buying chicken/turkey portions. They're very often findable at reasonable cost, especially frozen. Things like legs, quarters, thighs are excellent in terms of meat/bone ratio. Wings not so good - as mentioned, they're almost exclusively bone and skin (which is fine as part of a meal, or part of a diet - but pretty useless on their own).
None of it is a rigid requirement however. It isn't going to hurt if one meal is quite boney and the next over-meaty. Some meals might have offal included, others not. Just as with variation between meats, it's balance over time that counts. No need for every meal to follow strict criteria (any more than every meal you eat needs to). In the particular case of your dog though, who seems to be having a little trouble, it might be a good idea to see how she does with more meat first, and only later let a bit of variation slip in there.
Oh - and egg shell. Not all dogs will consume it. It's a nice bit of calcium for them if they will, so I'd suggest crumbling it up quite small and hiding it in ground meat. If she still picks it out, you could try putting it through a blender or food processor - or just forget it. It's not the end of the world if she doesn't want to eat the shell.
A better way to look at things, perhaps, is to say that you're trying to emulate the feeding of whole carcasses. You might not feed whole carcasses (and with the possible exception of chickens and rabbits, few of us ever do) but the proportion of meat to bone to offal should approximate that which the dog would have consumed had he been given a whole carcass over several meals.
So. How much meat versus bone would your dog be consuming if you bought a whole chicken and cut it up into meal sized bits? The answer, clearly, is a heck of a lot more than comes on chicken frames and necks
Now that doesn't mean don't feed necks and frames - they're an extremely useful and cheap food item. But it DOES mean that if you feed a lot of those items, you *must* add meat to ensure that the dog is getting adequate nutrition. Does this make reasonable sense to you? All parts of a carcass are valuable nutrition for a dog, you just need to ensure that what you feed does, over time, include or approximate all of them.
Actually buying whole chickens can be a very good and economical way to go. Commercially raised chickens do have a bit of an excess of meat, so that whole chicken can feed both the dog and people. There are plenty of raw feeders (myself included sometimes) who go out and get a whole chicken, take the breast meat off for themselves, and then cut the rest up into meal-sized portions for the dog. Since you often find that buying chicken breasts costs as much (or more) than the entire chicken, doing it this way effectively means that your dog may be eating "for free"...
So that's one option. Another is to buy the necks and frames - which is also an attractive option since they're cheap (sometimes even free). Then add meat (be it chicken, beef, lamb, pork or whatever is cheap at the time) in an amount that approximates the flesh that would have been on the carcass if not removed.
A further option is buying chicken/turkey portions. They're very often findable at reasonable cost, especially frozen. Things like legs, quarters, thighs are excellent in terms of meat/bone ratio. Wings not so good - as mentioned, they're almost exclusively bone and skin (which is fine as part of a meal, or part of a diet - but pretty useless on their own).
None of it is a rigid requirement however. It isn't going to hurt if one meal is quite boney and the next over-meaty. Some meals might have offal included, others not. Just as with variation between meats, it's balance over time that counts. No need for every meal to follow strict criteria (any more than every meal you eat needs to). In the particular case of your dog though, who seems to be having a little trouble, it might be a good idea to see how she does with more meat first, and only later let a bit of variation slip in there.
Oh - and egg shell. Not all dogs will consume it. It's a nice bit of calcium for them if they will, so I'd suggest crumbling it up quite small and hiding it in ground meat. If she still picks it out, you could try putting it through a blender or food processor - or just forget it. It's not the end of the world if she doesn't want to eat the shell.
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