Quiet time

[BeckyG]

We signed up Ruthie for puppy classes, and her first class was last week.

The trainer spent the whole hour on quiet time, two different ways. The first one, you sit in a chair with the puppy on a leash, and basically ignore them. Don't talk to them, don't look at them. Just gently push them down if they try to get up on you. If they lay down, then say "Good girl" and that's it.

The second one, you sit on the floor. Flip the puppy over onto their back, cradled in your lap. Put your hands across their breastbone, under their chin so they can't bite you. When they settle, start petting and rubbing paws, etc.

Ruthie does great with the first one. She learned this right away, and has started doing it whenever we ignore her. :D Like making dinner or whatever.

The second one I have a really hard time with. She settles down for my hubby after a minute or two. With me, though, she struggles the whole time. She seems to be able to squirm around and bite at my arm or (other painful areas) despite my best efforts. :( Last time I settled her down farther so she couldn't reach anything, but she still squirmed and whined really badly.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Am I doing something wrong? Why do I have so much trouble with this one when my hubby doesn't? She seems to accept my commands so much better than his, so I don't get it.

 

[vasha]

Becky -

Where are you going for training classes?

The second one, you sit on the floor. Flip the puppy over onto their back, cradled in your lap. Put your hands across their breastbone, under their chin so they can't bite you. When they settle, start petting and rubbing paws, etc.

this is, from what i understand, a dominance thing and that may be why she's fighting you so hard against this.

kaiser hugs n slobbers
VaSHa

 

[BeckyG]

There's a place in Garland called Top Dog Obedience class. I called around and they seemed compatible with positive reinforcement...

They do use training choke collars, though, which I'm still not sure about.

 

[vasha]

if they are using choke chains and you aren't comfortable with that, then dont go to classes there.

i'm not going to start a war for and against chokes, i know that in the past my parents dogs were trained with chokes and i'm training kaiser with only positive reinforcement. i love it and he enjoys training time too.

kaiser hugs n slobbers
VaSHa

 

[BeckyG]

Ooh, sensitive subject huh? :o

Well, I don't want to start a debate either. I'd really like to know if anyone else has any experience with this kind of hold, and what might be going on.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

What your trainer is doing is called an "Alpha Roll." It is meant to show the dog that you are Alpha over it and are dominant.

This technique has been used for years to some degree of success, I presume, or all trainers would have discontinued using this sort of thing.

In my opinion, the Alpha Roll is counterproductive. The dog's very first instinct when put into this position is to struggle and right itself. In working with aggressive dogs, this can be an extremely dangerous thing to do as well. I believe and train people how to be Alpha to their dogs by using other, less restrictive and counterproductive methods.

The "quiet time" technique is a good one, however. This helps the dog understand that all good things come from you at YOUR discretion and helps teach the dog that improper behavior doesn't get him what he wants.

May I suggest that if you are uncomfortable with this Alpha Roll technique, speak to your trainer, tell him/her that you would rather not use this technique on your dog and ask if there is an alternative technique he/she recommends. Same as with choke chains. If you are not comfortable, tell the instructor and you have every right not to use methods or equipment about which you have reservations or do not care to use.

I would suggest using the search button here at Boxerworld and using search words such as "Alpha Roll" and you will find lots and lots of information on this technique. Explanations as to why many trainers thing this is counterproductive and alternative methods to achieve the same goal.

Regarding your question about why the dog obeys your husband more so than you: Men tend to have a deeper, more "commanding" tone of voice and that often accounts for this. However dogs understand body language as well and you need to learn to communicate with your dog in language the dog understands. I would suggest getting a copy of "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell and learning the simple techniques therein to re-establish YOUR relationship with the dog as Leader.

Hope this helps some. Best of luck.

 

[BeckyG]

Thanks, Dan! :D

I'll go ahead and do that search. I think I will talk to the trainer about not doing that technique, because it just doesn't seem to work well with her.

Actually, it's strange, because Ruthie actually obeys me MORE than she obeys Jack. Although she's getting better with both. We actually wanted to go the the trainer so we could be more consistent in our methods. We were using different ways to train her, and it just wasn't working.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Good news Becky. Glad to hear you are taking charge of your dog's training. Don't be afraid. After all, it is YOUR dog. You can make the choices for him you feel are appropriate.

Yes, consistency in command work is ESSENTIAL. The dog can become very confused if different family members use different techniques, words, etc., with the dog. Not a good thing. I always recommend that my clients include the entire family in the classes, and if not I give them "cheat sheets" so that they can post the "steps" of the command work on the fridge and everyone can refer to them and do the same things.

It is especially important for children to work consistently with the dogs as well, always with adult supervision of course.

Different dogs respond to stimuli differently. One may need a more "commanding" tone to get its attention, while that same tone might make another dog shy away from you. Conversely, a gentle tone may work very well with some dogs and they respond much more readily than using a more commanding or deeper stronger tone of voice. This may account for the situation you describe with Ruthie. I have two dogs, one of each kind. It can be very difficult. Maggie needs a more commanding tone because she is more intense when she's not paying attention. Susie is more skittish, hyper and far more sensitive than Maggie and shys and is frightened by a more commanding tone. I am working to get both dogs to respond well using a more subdued tone and it seems to be finally working with Maggie as well. But that goes to show you that dogs too have personalities and "emotional" responses that are unique to each dog, same as people.

Get a copy of that book and have your whole family read it. I guarantee you it will be of tremendous help to you in not only your work in class, but in dealing with all of the issues at home that you will no doubt need to deal with after classes and when you beging the "real" work of shaping your pet into the kind of dog you've always wanted.

Best of luck and let us know how it is going.

 

[vasha]

Becky -

I'm almost done with my copy of The Dog Listener so if you'd like to borrow it . . . meet me at the April Bash <wink wink>

kaiser hugs n slobbers
VaSHa

 

[BeckyG]

:D Thanks Vasha!

If it would ever stop raining...