Questions about syncopal episode and paleness

[peterpaniam]

Hi guys, I need some comfort and assurance for the next couple of weeks. My sweetie Petey AKA Pootie Pie, our 7 year old (nearly 8 now) white boxer went outside to potty Monday afternoon, came back to the sliding back door staggering, made it inside and collapsed. Fell, hit his head and lip, and went totally pale and bloodless looking. Like a vampire had sucked all the blood out of him. His tongue was almost white! He didn't go totally unconscious, and sat back up almost immediately. Of course, we rushed him to the vet doing 80 miles an hour, for them to stare at him going "well....just don't know, could be cardiac..blah blah blah." After a chem panel, with all normal results, neg stool sample, normal temp, neg heartworm test, and normal chest x-ray, he is still looking drained of blood. He was sitting up and alert and just kind of blah acting, but lips, tongue, skin all stark white. She couldn't hear a heart murmur, and his heart rate was normal and everything. We have been referred to MedVet in Memphis, TN, which is an hour and a half away, but they are the only vet. specialists in West Tennessee (or so we've been told). Will be on the 28th before we go. It took him an hour to fully regain color--his bright red lips and gums and (hehe) testicles (hallmark Pootie Pie red festive testicles). We know all about the various cardio issues with boxers, my mother in law is a breeder (how we ended up with the special white baby), and we've had a few losses to the various boxer-specific cardiomyopathies. This just takes the cake though. No one can figure it out. Has anyone EVER had a dog do this loss of perfusion thing? With a normal heart rate? We have thought of everything, he had brick dust on his neck, like he had fallen or run into the brick wall next to our back door. We considered he could have knocked himself out, since he runs like a fool to come back in and could have hit the glass door or something. Either way, it appears some sort of shock, neurogenic or cardiogenic.
Any thoughts? Experiences? Comforting experiences?
We don't even know how much the echo and possible Holter is going to cost us, but it is so important to us we are taking out a loan just in case to cover it!!
ANY experiences shared would mean the world to me right now.

 

[sriley]

My boy had syncopal episodes, but he had heart problems (enlarged heart, cardiomyopathy, and a murmur). His syncopes were induced when his blood pressure dropped significantly and this only ever happened when he fell into a deep sleep. He was put on Fortekor and Vetmedin which, unfortunately, offered little relief since he presented symptoms too late. Best of luck to you and Petey. Please keep us posted and let us know what you find out. My thoughts are with you.

 

[Cami]

So sorry to hear about your baby!
I know how terribly frightening these episodes can be. Factor in the not knowing and the waiting to find out thing and it can seem as if you might go crazy with worry.
*If* it is a heart related thing I am not surprised that nothing was heard in the form of arrhythmia's at the vets office.
They are just not consistent and easily heard by all vets at any given time. Even EKG's (or ECG's) will miss them.
When my girl collapsed she went down like she triped while walking and then got right back up. She was a little woozy but it was the tongue getting nearly white that prompted me to rush her to the ER.
That was about an 8 minute drive and she was immediately hooked up to an EKG which showed NOTHING with about 30 minutes of testing.
The following day she had a holter which is what picked up the arrhythmia's.
Hopefully you will have some answers very soon. Keep us posted.

 

[peterpaniam]

Thanks so much. We are so scared, but trying not to let it overwhelm us. He has a long history of problems. He got parvo before he got his final in the series of puppy vaccinations, lived through that when we thought he would die, then had a round with the demodectic mange, made it through that, and his siblings have all had problems. We knew what we were in for. We took him because he was the only white one in my mother in law's litter and we knew he would probably need lots of loving and care.
Something else I was wondering---does it normally take a long time to pink back up after going pale like that? The vet that saw him and her staff (keep in mind they are very small town rural vets that have large animals as their moneymakers and don't put a lot of effort into small animals) didn't even put oxygen on him, just stood and watched him. I would think that pale white gums/skin = no perfusion, low oxygen getting to the brain. It took him about 20-25 minutes to pink a bit, then a full hour until he was back to normal color.

I just hope that the clinic in Memphis does Holters. I called every large vet clinic in a 60 mile radius and none knew of a clinic that even did EKG's. The one we are going to is the only clinic that does echos, and they don't even have a cardiologist, just internal med specialists.

Sorry to rant, I am just worried sick.

 

[sriley]

Poor Petey. He's been through so much. He's lucky he has someone so keen on getting him the care he needs. No need to apologize. Petey is your baby and worrying about him is only natural when you're faced with something like this. Unfortunately, I don't have any advice in terms of Petey's paleness. My Buddy was a flashy brindle boy and because the majority of his fur and skin pigment was dark, there was no way for me to notice any change in his colour when a syncope was happening. Give Petey a scratch behind the ears from me and tell him to hang in there. We're thinking about him and hoping for the very best.

 

[Cami]

I would focus on finding a board certified cardiologist instead of traveling to a vets office for an exam by an internal vet specialist.
A quick search provided two at the College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee in Knoxville.
If that is too far away for you to travel then I would at minimum contact their cardiology department and have them guide you to another cardiologist.
An echo (ultrasound) won't show arrhythmia's. It can however show if any damage has been done to the heart because of the arrhythmia's (if that is going on).
Quite concerning that you couldn't even find a clinic that had an EKG machine as it is pretty standard equipment especially when performing surgical procedures!

 

[peterpaniam]

Cami thanks for the suggestion. In my DUH moments lately it never crossed my mind to call. UT Knoxville is at least 7 hours from us. We are much closer to the Memphis end of the state, but I am going to call them Monday am and ask for guidance. Jackson, TN is very close to us, and a larger metro area, but their vets are pretty much the shots-only type of clinics.
Our area is purely livestock country. We had at one point 6 vets in our local clinic, and one by one they have all gone into equine-only practices. They just don't put any effort into anything other than preventive care. It amazes me they will go out in the middle of the night to save a pig but wouldn't answer the callback for a dog, even if you would pay them a million dollars. I called our closest UT campus, and they pretty much told me every good one is in East Tennessee. We wouldn't mind the trip but Petey doesn't travel well at all...the trip to Memphis is going to be taxing. I did find out though from all my calls that the place in Memphis is the best in our end of the state, they do high-tech orthopedic procedures. I just want a simple Holter!
I am also wondering if I contact a reputable boxer breeder if they would know. I know they run Holters frequently on breeding boxers....what are your thoughts? Worth a shot or not??
Thanks again. I am just flipping out. This is how pathetic I am--I am sitting in the floor next to his doggie bed with my laptop while he is in my recliner dozing comfortably!