Question about catylyst of aggression...

[LokiGem]

Loki will be 2 yr.s in a few weeks. I love him to death and he is a very loving boy. We have had several bad experiences at our local dog park. He was attacked there by other dogs(males) a couple time without provocation when he was younger. He never returned the aggression, he would submiss to the agressor. The last time we had a problem was with another male boxer. It started as play and ended with bloodshed - both dogs were bleeding but not badly hurt. I stopped going to the park for awhile. Now I have been trying to meet up with my local BW crew for bashes and Loki has started to pick fights with other male dogs especially intact males, but any male that he feels is trying to dominate.
I have done searches and have gotten great advice (Thank you BW!!!). I am re-reading The Dog Listener and having him earn everything through good behavior.
My question is, should I avoid the dog park all together, as this is the only place that Loki demonstrates this behavior? Or, should I work the dog park into our training (eventually) to deal with this problem? Honestly, I know that this is my fault because due to our past experiences there I can't help feeling nervous at the park. My nervousness (as Loki's pack leader,) makes him feel insecure, I know. It is my human instinct vs. his dog language...

Thank you BW for providing a place for me to find advice about this issue and thank you members for reading and helping me out!
I love you guys!
-Kim & Loki

 

[Krikkit]

Hi Kim, it's so hard to guess why things like this start - even the experts can only take educated guesses. Don't worry about 'why' as we can make ourselves crazy by wondering 'why, why, why'. It is better just to recognise the issue and set about working on what you do know, eg: Loki is insecure with intact male dogs when running at the dog park. All dogs are different and will react to the same experiences differently.

FWIW, Loki sounds a bit insecure and is just getting in first. It is most likely that this did stem from bad experiences at the dog park with intact males. Personally I don't like dog parks and will not take my dogs to them as I can not control who they interact with and have no control at all regarding the other dog owners (they are actually my biggest concern, many are unable to read dogs).

If it were me, I would not go to dog parks especially if I was nervous in this situation. There are heaps of other ways a dog can get exercise and socialise. Not all dogs need to socialise in a group like this either as it can stress them out far too much. When a dog gets stressed, it takes several days for their stress levels to come back into the normal range, but by then, they have probably been exposed to the thing that makes them stressed again and they don't have a chance to calm down at all. The stress can build and build in the dog (and human) making an otherwise 'minor' solveable issue a behavioural nightmare.

Have you got a copy of 'Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson? It is probably a better book to give you more insight about things like this. James O'Heare' "Canine Aggression Workbook" is excellent and well worth purchasing if you want to take a look at the nuts and bolts of coping with aggression issues. The 'Calming Signals' booklet and video set by Turid Rugass (along with the set of of seminar tapes) are another outstanding resource for anyone serious about understanding dogs.

Good luck with this.

Sharon

 

[LokiGem]

Thank you Sharon. I do not have the other books you mentioned and I will pick them up. I was hoping that you would say that it's ok just to not go to the park. Wheww. I have had great play dates there but, I really do get too nervous there for Loki to look to me for security. The local BW crew consists of all females and Loki loves each of them! They all get along great and I think they have established a pack order amongst the group where Loki is proudly the Alpha (and only) Male.
Loki lives peacefully with my parent's yorkie (who gets snippy) and their maltese. They are all males and Loki plays super gentle with them. I am pretty sure that is the crowd of strange dogs at the park that makes him feel insecure. He has never acted aggressively anywhere else. I will try to arrange private structured playdates with his little pack of BW boxer-girlfriends and avoid the dog parks. It just isn't worth the anxiety that it causes me and Loki.

Thanks Sharon, you've made me feel much better about this situation.

A very relieved, Kim & Loki

 

[Krikkit]

Kim, it sounds like Loki has plenty of opportunities for play and exercise without going to the park FWIW, my lot have never been to a dog park yet all have an active social life, a large circle of canine friends, and get plenty of exercise with their humans.

Sharon

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

I would agree with Sharon. No need to go to the dog park if you are uncomfortable and it makes your dog stressed and aggressive. There are many other ways to exercise a dog and have a happy, stress free companion.

And Sharon is correct in that the worst part of dog parks is the other owners who don't know how to read, handle or control their own dogs. All of the problems I ever had in dog parks were from other dogs/owners who had dogs who were un-trained or whose owners could have cared less how they behaved in these situations. It caused Susie a lot of trauma in NY as she seemed to get picked on a lot by the other dogs. I am glad we don't go to many dog parks anymore and when we do, it is usually as a group with friends of my dogs whom I know they get along with.

You can have play dates galore. That's what we do now. And it works out just fine.

Best of luck.

 

[LokiGem]

Do we still have an aggression problem?

Thank you Sharon and Dan. You have really comforted me about this issue.
Loki is the biggest love-bug and is calm and well behaved everywhere but the dog park. My family and friends don't believe that he accted aggressively at the park. He is such a smooshy, affectionate, tolerant boy. You can roll him over, wrestle h/ him, take anything from him(drop-it style,) and my mom always kisses him and nibbles on his jowels (they are quite irristable!) Loki has no problem making new doggy friends when we go for our leashed walks at the lake. He even except the new males he meets on his walks, without incident.
He especially loves his BW girlfriends (3-4 female boxers.) He has obviously been elected as Alpha (the only male) for that little group, is that a problem? He has been playing with these girls for awhile now and when we all met up at the dog park he would not let any males play in his little BW pack and would warn them to stay away. The females didn't seem to mind and they would just kind of move around the park and stayed together away from the others.

The dog park is just too much chaos for me & Loki. I know I send him "Mom is a nervous wreck" vibes which surely contributes to his insecurity there. I think that if we avoid the park Loki won't get scary, snarly, or attack other dogs again.
Do you think that his aggression there is something that we should work on in training or will avoiding the dog park be enough? Like I said, that is the only place I've seen him get that way. Is the pack order of his BW play group a potential problem?

Thanks so much for your help. I felt awful about this yesterday. I feel much better now, and regardless of how I must address this problem, I am comforted to know that you guys think that is ok to avoid the off-leash park. I was worried that I would have to desensitize him there, but the harder part would be for me not to be nervous there. I don't think I could ever relax with all those crazy dog owners and strange dogs.

(Sorry so long) Thanks so much.
-Kim and Loki the Lover lovicon

 

[Krikkit]

Kim, it sounds as if Loki's displays of aggressive behaviour are situational (only at the dog park). If I understand correctly, this does not happen anywhere else. If so, you probably have nothing to worry about. I would not get to hung up on 'dominance' etc - if anything Loki is a middle to low ranking boy, as the true leaders do not need to bluster, pose and fight or act scary and snarly - they don't need to.

Here is an article you may like to read about boys and girls and social structure etc:Social Hierarchies

I really don't think you have much to worry about here Loki's manners when out and about on lead sound wonderful.

Sharon

 

[LokiGem]

Thanks Sharon. Yes, Loki has only ever acted out at that off leash park. He has never had a problem anywhere else.
I came across that artical before when I was searching for help about this. I thought that Loki acted out because of the loss of pack order at the park. You are right though, I guess WHY he does this is not that important. WHERE he does this is all I know and as long as we avoid the park we won't have a problem.
I can't thank you enough for your responses. I was so upset before. I know now that is something fairly easy to control, no more dog-park. I feel lucky that this is a situational problem. I have read many of the threads on aggression where people were afraid of their own dogs?!!? I was really worried that his behavior at the park were signs of a bigger problem. I am so relieved.
Loki was telling me he doesn't like the dog-park, I don't like it either, so thats fine. It is really the only place where Loki can run off leash, but I will work on planning quiet playdates with his buddies where he feels comfortable. He has always enjoyed taking walks with 1 or 2 of his buddies. And that way, I get a work out too!!!!

Kim & Loki

 

[yobdlog]

Dog Park Aggression

I must preface this by saying that I grew up with Rottweilers and Dobermans in my immediate family. I have a 'good' grasp on reading unfriendly behaviour and even more of a grasp controlling a possible aggression from dogs.

I agree wholeheartedly with the advice that if the dog park brings on too much aggression, just avoid it completely.

My wife and I have a boxer now and enjoy taking her to the dog park (which is something I rarely got to do with the dobies when I had them). We noticed that there is a pattern to her aggression and its when she is pitted on the defensive. I am confident that our boxer is not at all aggressive nor the aggressor in all the situations we have encountered (which thankfully have been very limited). It usually starts when another more dominant dog takes the stance of control over her (usually read when they immediately get on her and grab at her neck or try in the male humping stance), she immediately responds with an unwelcome low growl and is amazingly patient hoping they get the message. When they don't and they continue for a few more seconds, she lets loose and really gets aggressive with them at her 'that's it I'm telling you who's boss' move. Again, my wife and I can read 'her' warning signs and start separating her from the other dog(s) so that she can chill out for a moment and thankfully the emotion is fleeting as she continues to play with other dogs (she loves to play with other dogs imagine that!) that don't exhibit the agressive dominant play.

Unfortunately, my in-laws have a Schnauzer that is not sociable at all and constantly yips and snips at our Boxer and for the first 4-5 yips and snips, she just ignores the Schnauzer and will growl quietly and if he persists, she lets it all out and lays the smackdown on him.

Some dogs just aren't social or are too aggressive in asserting their dominance even at play and reading those signs with 'your' dog is important. When you get more comfortable with your dog, you'll find the signs they give when they don't like an encounter, from my experience its rare that a dog goes from 0 to snap in heartbeat without some signals (look at their hair, stance, eyes, growls, movement etc.).

Good Luck!!