Prey-Model Diet?

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kayboxer

Boxer Insane
Has anyone heard about Prey-Model diet? I was reading an article on Prey-Model vs. Raw. They are very close, but one of the major differences is the Raw diet believes in feeding 50% bone and the Prey diet believes that is too much bone. They believe the diet should consist of only 25% bone, since wolves do not consume many of the bones in their prey because they are not edible and they are only consuming 25% or less in natural prey. They believe in feeding just about any prey animal that can run, swim, or fly. Vegetables and fruits and supplements are unnecessary. The wings and necks of chickens are not a good choice because of all the bones and little meat, and this article claims that they are the most complained about problem bones. I actually found it pretty interesting and am wondering if anyone else has read articles on this diet?
Also, while we are on the subject of bones, I would like to give my dogs some raw meaty bones for snacks. What are the best bones for this? I have a 7 yr old and 5 mo. old. I think I'll try a snack rug in the kitchen and see how it goes. Any input on snack bones is greatly appreciated! :)
 

Walkssoftly

Completely Boxer Crazy
I haven't heard of this Prey-Model diet.. but am always ALL ears when there are any comments on raw diet.. So am hoping others will comment..

Karen
TaTanka white male 1yr
Sequoia white female 1yr
Sly 21yr old male kitkat
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
Prey versus raw? The prey model IS raw. Or at least, one of several raw feeding theories. Not sure I've seen one yet that advocates 50% bone in the diet though ;)

Those that suggest that RMBs should be about 50% bone do not normally *also* suggest that RMBs make up the entire diet (actually no mainstream raw feeding theory that I'm aware of suggests that RMBs make up the entire diet). More commonly it's about 60-70%. And of that 60-70%, about half is cartillage and bone - resulting in 30-35% of the total diet being bone (probably less, since it's not all consumable bone). Seem a bit more reasonable? And not, actually, all that different to your article.

The major difference between prey model raw feeding and some other prominant raw feeding theories (barf, for example) is not in the amount of bone fed, but in the inclusion or exclusion of fruit and vegetables from the diet. It boils down, in the main, to whether or not people believe that dogs have evolved consuming the stomach contents of their prey. Did they consume the content, or did they let it fall?

Those who believe the former generally include around 10-20% of fruit and vegetable matter in the diet (pulverised, to mimick the semi-digested state it would have been in, and to enable their dogs to digest it as they wouldn't otherwise). And those who believe the latter generally feed a minimal amount of fruit/vegetable matter, if any at all. That is the big difference (and most people on this site, myself included, seem to be far more in the latter non-veggie camp).

There are, of course, variations of opinion on the prey model just as on any other (diet, be it for humans or for dogs, is not something you're ever going to get 100% agreement on). At one extreme end are those who run around scraping up road-kill so that they're able to feed whole carcasses, plus a few who'll scream at the mere mention of veggies. Most people though, end up mimicking the feeding of whole carcasses (i.e. feeding a range of parts and offal that together approximate the whole).

Of course, when it comes to things like chicken, even rabbit, it IS quite possible to buy the entire carcass and feed it to the dog over the course of several meals. But if it's more economical to buy it in parts and feed a range of parts that approximate the whole carcass, I really see no problem with that ;)

That items like chicken necks and wings have little meat is certainly correct. Same goes for chicken frames or backs (which have had the meat removed). But nobody in their sane mind advocates feeding those items in isolation - as the majority of the diet. They are perfectly useful (and cheap) parts intended to be fed along with, or alternated with, meat. And offal. Billinghurst (founder of the barf diet) is very clear about that - it takes a twisted mind to come up with the idea that he advocates feeding a diet comprised of 50% bone.

It is also worth noting that animals raised for the human food chain have generally been modified over time - bred to produce a far higher-than-natural amount of meat and often softer bones (thinking chickens in particular here, from which it can be a good idea and very economical to remove the breast meat for yourself). In short, whichever way you choose to feed these items, the aim is to approximate what would have been present on a whole carcass. I think a few people overlook that (your article included).
 

kayboxer

Boxer Insane
Thank you gmacleod for replying. I just happened upon that article one day looking for raw diet tips. I'm still trying to talk myself into trying it, I'm just not quite there yet, but am edging ever so closer. I think my greatest fear is that I will mess up and not give my fur kids the adequate diet they need, so I just keep reading article after article in hopes of trying to give myself the confidence I need to give it a go.
Thank you for clearing up the bone percentage thing, what you said makes perfect sense. There was a paragraph in that article about feeding rats. I almost lost my dinner on that one! Sorry, can't imagine feeding rats to any creature except a snake. So, the comment you made about roadkill made me laugh, because I could just picture someone out there scraping up a dead opossum (prevolent in our area) to feed to Rover! (EW!) You cleared up a lot of things for me in your reply.
One more thing, could you please recommend a good raw bone for me to purchase for snack? I once tried the knuckle bone years ago, MISTAKE! :LOL: Roxy threw up, too much ligaments or cartilage. Something big enough so the little guy won't try to swollow? I truely appreciate your input, obviously you have a lot of experience. May I ask, how long you have had (raised) boxers? I learn something new from this site every day, and I truely appreciate it.
 

Walkssoftly

Completely Boxer Crazy
Great to read your reply Gmacleod! Very informative.. and I plan to pass this on to others. This sort of post helps me explain things easier to those that ask me about feeding raw.....

Thanks for your Reply on this!

Karen
TaTanka white 1yr male
Sequoia white 1yr female
SLY 21yr old kitkat
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
One more thing, could you please recommend a good raw bone for me to purchase for snack? I once tried the knuckle bone years ago, MISTAKE! :LOL: Roxy threw up, too much ligaments or cartilage.

Possibly some beef ribs would be good. If you don't separate them, then the dog will spend hours chewing away to get the meat and cartillage off, but will consume only a small amount of the bone. Femurs can also be OK for recreational purposes (though you'd maybe want to remove some of the marrow - it's wonderfully nutritious, but also incredibly fatty).

For learning more about raw, you could download one of Dr Lonsdale's publications for free (he's pretty close to 'prey model', within practical boundaries). His site is www.rawmeatybones.com and the book you can have for free there is "work wonders". Just click on it's icon on the left of the front page to go to the download.

Edit - actually, it looks as though it's no longer available free... it used to be, so possibly you'd find a free version somewhere with an internet search though. If not, it's actually worth buying, as is his original book.
 

kayboxer

Boxer Insane
Thanks, I'll see if I can find some at my meat plant. You buy regular beef ribs right? Just like we eat? I'll do some research and try to find Dr. Longsdale's publication. Thanks so much!
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
Yup, regular ribs (still joined together is best - then the dog can't try swallowing it whole). Here's some pictures: http://www.rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhotos/9

If you click on "recipes" on the left menu on that site, there are plenty of other suggestions for what you can feed - many of which are perfectly suitable just for chewing as well. And there are pictures, so you can know fairly well what it is you're looking for.
 

Walkssoftly

Completely Boxer Crazy
I'm still trying to talk myself into trying it, I'm just not quite there yet, but am edging ever so closer. I think my greatest fear is that I will mess up and not give my fur kids the adequate diet they need, so I just keep reading article after article in hopes of trying to give myself the confidence I need to give it a go.
One more thing, could you please recommend a good raw bone for me to purchase for snack? I once tried the knuckle bone years ago, MISTAKE! :LOL: Roxy threw up, too much ligaments or cartilage. Something big enough so the little guy won't try to swollow? I truely appreciate your input, obviously you have a lot of experience. May I ask, how long you have had (raised) boxers? I learn something new from this site every day, and I truely appreciate it.

Hiya kayboxer..
Just my two cents.. I was taken back by feeding raw at first too, but I can tell you that both my boxers have benefit from it HUGE! Cured my TaTanka's demodex by boosting his immune system, his coat is thick and beautiful now! Neither of my boxers shed ANYTHING like my precious Tuffy (R.I.P.) did... and we don't have the tummy issues.. AMEN! lol
The support group for ppl that have questions here in BW is truly amazing. Most that feed raw, want to encourage others that wish to do so, as we all see the benefits and results from doing so. If you ask questions in the raw feeding forum? Ppl here always come to your assistance. They all helped me sooo much.. I'm pretty A.D.D. and sometimes have to come back in and ask things again.. and am greatful to always get input.
Recently my TaTanka had a parasite which sapped him of weight, so once he was wormed, I decided to add an extra meal a day (they normally get two meals a day) wanted to give mid day meal too.. Thought maybe if I tried some kibble, Innova Evo, as I read, it's about as close as you can get to feeding raw, if feeding kibble... Well.. I fed it at noon for about 5 days.. Omword! IMMEDIATELY we had gas.. So much so that Ms. Sequoia let one fly, it was long and loud :eek: and she took off running! :LOL: Then kept lookin' at her rear end.. and even snuck back over to where she was laying and looked around.. I think she thought she dropped a bomb! foundicon
And *whew* they were rotten. This food only has barley in it too, so I didn't think it would affect them, HA! I was wrong..
Also?? Strange as it was.. I noticed that both of the dogs had excessive tearing once again.. which they haven't had since I had been feeding raw for awhile.. I never realized that it had gone away.. but should have, because I didn't have to wipe their faces a couple times a day! So obviously there must be some sort of allergy factor involved.
Yup.. we've stopped the raw.. TaTanka isn't as fond of Beef, and it's red meat that puts the weight on.. soooo I'll just have to feed him other red meats.. He will eat beef, just not excited about it, and I feed it in the a.m... as for him, it seems to digest better while he's off n' runnin' around.. rather than at night.. Now mind you, this is just TaTanka, Sequoia doesn't seem to have any issues with it.. or ANY food for that matter, she's a lil' garbage can.. if you step on her foot, the mouth opens.. then again? she's INHALES anything that hits the floor! *geeezzzz* NOT a good thing sometimes..
As for bones? I use knuckle bones.. but mostly soup bones.. that have bone marrow.. Not too often though, coz I had read they can be too much.. as in rich.. There are others, and I'm sure others here in BW will answer you.. If you use the "SEARCH" and put in a key word or two? You will find answers to most your questions.. Since you said you have been researching.. There's noooooo better place to do that, than right here! Then you can ask direct questions. There's just soooo much amazing info. posted in here!
Anyway.....
Just trust in yourself. you couldn't do anything better for your boxer!

Karen <---long winded.. *sheepish grin* but always learning!
Sequoia 1yr white female
TaTanka 1yr white male
SLY 21yr old male kitty
 

kayboxer

Boxer Insane
Thank you for your encouragement! So, if a dog's ideal weight is 60 lbs., you feed them 3 lbs. of meat a day? Am I close? Also, when you feed eggs, do you feed it with meat? I know, I sound stupid, sorry, I feel stupid. :LOL: I am trying to figure this out. I was getting ready to pressure cook chicken yesterday and had some thighs on the counter. I made the mistake of turning my back and Buster decided to counter surf. He didn't have one pulled off yet, but was licking it. I don't think he'd have trouble switching, don't know about Roxy though. My next question, when you go out of town, what do you feed them? Hard to bring along a refrigerator with you sometimes. :LOL: I guess I need to sit down and figure out how much it would be monthly compared with quality kibble. Gmacleod, do you feed veggies or just meat? I loved the link by the way!
 
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