Peeing in the house...already housebroken

[FarleyBoxer]

I resent somewhat people that insist on show rings and such as the only to get a dog. ... To believe that only the gifted few know more than the rest of us or are somehow superior with their "show quality" dogs is a bit much. ... but some people need to come down off their high horse with regards to breeding. ... Simba is a AKC registered dog and I would be willing to bet that he is one of the most beautiful boxers anyone would ever see.

Breeding only dogs that have been evaulated by trained professionals is not the same as saying the only worthwhile dog is a show-quality one. I volunteer alot of time to boxer rescue, so believe me, you are preaching to the choir. But the only reason boxer rescues exist in the first place is bc people insist on continually breeding dogs simply to make a quick buck or bc they want cute puppies around. I don't have a show quality dog: He's WHITE! So again, I think you're twisting what's being said.

The AKC is nothing more than a registry body, and while it is a requirement for the show ring it does not mean that a puppy is healthy or a good example of the boxer breed. Puppy mill puppies are AKC registered. No one questioned whether Simba is beautiful...

And insisting on educating people about the *responsible* way to go about breeding is not being on a 'high horse.' It's only bc we care so deeply about this breed that we even bother trying to convince people that breeding dogs willy nilly bc someone said they were good looking is wrong. Most of the time, unfortunately, we're fighting a losing battle, as you can see from all the 'Help! My dog just had puppies, now what I do?' threads... :(

 

[kofi'sworld]

show ring : )

as an aside... alot of people have misconceptions about the purpose of a show ring... it's really not a place for people to "show" off their dogs : )... infact the proper name should be conformation ring (and i think it is though less commonly used)

the genetic engineering that's taken place over the hundred years or so, necessary to produce our shih tzu's and boxers needs constant testing... the purpose of a conformation or dog show is to bring people together to judge whether a particular dog conforms to the breed standard.. this constant evaluation of what a dog should be is necessary to ensure that the looks and temper that we desire in particular dog stay that way...

i also do alot of rescue and see lot's of akc registered boxers with longer noses... a trait that we try to breed out of a dog and ideally a breeder who participates (or at least is aware of) shows would try to get her dogs to conform as well (not that i don't love the longer nosed babies)

i don't think showing takes any particular gift, just patience and time which helps people acquire knowledge.. it kind of burns my bristles when people take for granted the amount of time and effort it takes to really know the dogs standard and be able to come up with different matings ie. genetic combinations to attempt to achieve that "perfect" conforming dog...

sorry if i'm ranting... but my bf was a handler and his mom was too and it's a lot of hard work that is often misjudged as some sort of "gift"

 

[Simba's Clan]

I understand everyone in any hobby/interest/passion whatever you want to call it takes a lot of their time. I just reject the implied superiority some take in the dog breeding world. All animales regardless of background require care, love and lots of $$$$ to raise. I was just looking for some info on housetraining issues, happened to innocently say the B word and was dressed down for it. Some of what goes in all breeding seems to have a certain Aryan breeding influence to it --- that only the best are decent and are all the rest are inherently inferior. Who is to say that any one dog due to a certain background is somehow not as good and the people that somehow put the dogs together are horrible and uneducated.

The people we bouhgt Simba from have had boxers all their lives. They breed each generation once or twice and that it is it until the next time. Does he love the breed any less because he did not mortgage the house to certify his animals to some unattainable only met by a few? The answer is no, and moreover there is a certain supply and demand here. Puppy mills are of course bad, but the backyard breeder is not the UBL of the canine world. I could not afford to pay what some require for a show puppy. And then the contract...this is a dog not a car or home loan. I assure all that I take my dog seriously but to jum down my throat for saying BREEDING is absurd. Maybe the name of the site should be "www.Select-BoxerWorld-Only.com"

To those that have and will offer housetraining advice, I say thank you. I enjoy using this site for the resources it has to offer. However, I think that in the future I will have to really give some thought before I speak so as not to talked down to by some.

 

[marciafinn]

Mason, my four year old neutered male went through this similar behavior and it turned out to be a UTI. If you run a search on UTI, you'll find the thread I started about it about six months ago. I would contact the vet to rule this out and if it isn't you can talk to a trainer or behaviorist to help pinpoint the cause of his urination.

Please do not get upset with the others in BW regarding breeding. We are all here for our love of the breed and hate the fact that there are so many boxers in rescues and shelters. Our goal is to put an end to this and have each boxer in a good home that they all deserve. There are so many other breeds as well that need homes so we try to educate people on responsible breeding to help the cause. I have learned so much about responsible and ethical breeding since I've joined this web site and I'm glad that I have been educated by such a wonderful group of people.

Many people here have also rescued their babies from a shelter or a rescue organization. Many others have bought their babies from BYB's. We don't think that our babies are superior to others. In fact Mason came from a BYB and I am thankful he doesn't have any major health problems. There are some health issues which are not detected without proper health testing.

I hope that Simba is feeling better soon. There is also the health risks of not neutering which I would take into consideration. Let us know how you make out and if it is a UTI and if not what it is. I'm curious since I did some research when Mason had this problem.

 

[Simba's Clan]

Thanks for the info Marcia. I will have the UTI checked out. However, from what I am reading, I think it is the marking/maturity thing everyone mentioned. He was in just a month or so ago for shots and an annual visit and was fine, but maybe UTI does not get checked then. However, I will get him checked nonetheless.


Happy Holidays.

 

[gmacleod]

No, a vet won't check for a UTI in the general course of a routine annual check, unless you mention something that would indicate he might have such an infection. Certainly it is worth getting checked anyway.

As to the breeding thing - I think you made it fairly clear that that isn't one of your aims in life.

However, I will take this opportunity to let you know why Boxerworld (which, incidentally, will not be changing it's name anytime soon ) takes the stance it does on responsible breeding practices only.

The boxer breed suffers from a number of genetically inheritable defects. They're not minor ones - primarily we're talking about hip dysplasia and two major heart conditions (boxer cardiomyopathy and aortic stenosis). Those conditions will have a major impact on the quality and length of life of any affected individuals. Unfortunately for the breeding fraternity, those conditions may not be evident until a dog is 5 or 6 or more years old. Remember these are genetically inherited conditions - so if you breed an affected dog then it's offspring are likely to be affected too, and so it goes on.

Not surprisingly, the problem (that is, the incidence of affected animals) has been getting steadily worse over the years. Nobody breeding boxers could credibly claim that those problems don't exist in their lines. So what's the future for the breed? Let the incidence of serious health problems continue to grow unchecked until that's just what you get in a boxer? A life expectancy of 2-6 years? No - I don't think any of us want that future for this breed.

The alternative is to spend the money on screening for those conditions before you breed. It still isn't 100% foolproof - but it is a heck of a lot better than continuing with indiscriminate breeding practices that are slowly (actually, not that slowly at all) and surely destroying this breed.

And frankly, it isn't that expensive either. Sure, it probably means you won't make a profit from breeding your dogs just one time - but everyone claims that isn't the reason they breed anyway...

So health considerations are the primary pre-requisite for breeding dogs. If you aren't prepared to do the testing, or aren't even aware of the problems you need to be screening out of the breed of dog you're breeding - you've no right at all to be doing it. That is the single biggest problem with backyard breeders (and with show breeders too, if they don't health test - and some still don't). They're not necessarily bad people and many of them love their dogs like children. But whether it is inadvertant or not, their ignorance is destroying the health of this breed. You can call that an Aryan attitude if you like, but before you do, just check out the health section here for the hundreds of heartbreaking stories people are posting where their dog has died suddenly, has a serious heart problem, has mange, can't walk because of dysplastic hips at only 2 years of age... the list goes on. And it is *avoidable* if only people would take breeding with the seriousness it deserves.

We humans created this breed, and every person who ever breeds two dogs together is responsible for the outcome of that breeding. To knowingly breed two individuals affected by a genetic disorder together would be akin to criminal. To do the same thing "unknowingly" because of ignorance or being unwilling to spend the money to screen for those disorders is no better.

So this website will continue to promote responsible breeding practices *only*. We will not welcome or condone backyard breeding practices here, and will continue to try to educate new members on the subject. It is unfortunate if you're so offended by the advice people have given you here - maybe some people could usefully emply a little more finesse in giving such advice. I hope you'll take it on board all the same though - style of delivery doesn't affect the validity of the content . But more importantly - there are others who will read this thread, who won't be taking that advice as a personal attack. If that means just one person who stops, does a little research and either spays/neuters their pet instead of using it as a breeding machine, or who proceeds but only does so *after* health screening, then far greater good than harm was done.

A couple of useful links for you:
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59482
www.boxerworld.com/breeders