Pee Pee Everywhere

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gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
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But, he's still drinking as much water as any other dog a day. He drinks close to 3 large bowls in the morning.

Which, frankly, is an indication of dehydration (unless my reckoning of a 'large' bowl is different from yours ;)). I find it hard to imagine a baby desperate enough to drink to that degree. Are you not giving him access to water overnight either?

Irrespective, drinking great amounts one or two times a day isn't enough. This is a dog, not a camel. Like any other mammal, he requires regular infusions of fluids throughout the day. He should (as should all animals) have constant access to water on demand (ie. when it's needed). Not expected to stock up and last all day. That is just a basic necessity of life. Holy cow - you wouldn't expect a human infant to go without fluids all day would you?

As for the crate - well, you're perfectly entitiled to disagree with anything you want to. But you're abusing the purpose and intent of crates: which are absolutely NOT intended to be used for those sorts of periods. And for a baby who should be ready to empty his bladder every 60 minutes (or less) you have one sitting 7 hours without water...

I'm glad that you'll at least start to provide water for your puppy during the day. Even if you won't provide for his other bodily needs, that one is a basic necessity of life.
 

boxerbongee

Boxer Pal
I agree about the water and today I left water for him in his crate. Here's my confusion. What's the difference between gating him in a kitchen or putting him a huge crate? This crate is big enough for an adult male Rottweiler to be able to walk back and forth. So, realistically, he could pee or poop on one end and not come anywhere near it. So, I don't see how that's abuse. I leave multiple toys in there including a Kong stuffed with treats.
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
There's an obvious difference ;) Your puppy is not relieving himself in one end, and playing happily in the other. That may well be due in part to the water restriction. But also a likely factor is that he doesn't want to pee in his crate - even if he can get a small distance away from it.

The whole purpose of crates as housetraining tools is exactly that - they DO provide a significant disincentive to puppies relieving themselves. OK, for some pups the need/desire to urinate is greater than the evil of having to sit in it - and their owner have to resort to things like removing bedding and putting in dividers. But that's not the majority (there may be many posts here about that sort of thing - but that's because people post when they HAVE problems, not when they don't). For most pups, just being crated is sufficient deterrent for a good period of time (eventually, every pup would have no choice but to pee, of course).

The bottom line is that your puppy isn't urinating for 6-7 hours daily. And that is not good for his health. Gated in the kitchen (for example) with his crate door open - he can sleep in his crate, drink whatever fluids his body requires - and urinate well away from his bed when he needs to. He is far more likely to relieve himself as needed in this case.

Now that may sound rather the opposite of what you'd like - your currently dry pup peeing in your kitchen. But the age of your puppy and the potential impacts of him (a) being dehydrated, and (b) holding toxins within his body for such long periods needs to be considered. At this age, he should be needing to urinate every 30 minutes or so. Asking him to hold on for up to 3 hours isn't the end of the world. But creating a situation with limited water and unable to urinate for 6-7 hours might be. He's liable to end at least with UTIs and undue stress on his internal organs.

Now, quite possibly, once you start leaving him with water, he *might* start peeing in one end of his crate. But believe me, you don't want that to happen ;) Not just because it's harder to clean up than some soggy newspaper - but because it would end with the puppy effectively trained to pee in his crate. And once he loses inhibition about doing that, it's an incredibly difficult thing to untrain and you can end with a dog who pees in his crate all his life.

The newspaper solution generally gets around all of that. OK, it would be an ideal world if you didn't have to use the newspaper, and could always be there to take your puppy outside to urinate. But that's ideal world - very few of us have that luxury. We just have to choose the best solutions we can that don't involve risk to the pup (nor creation of problems like a dog trained to pee in the crate). The best solutions available are thus either finding/paying someone to come every few hours to give the puppy a potty stop outside, or else providing a place outside his crate where he can urinate on demand.
 

boxerbongee

Boxer Pal
I appreciate your insight. Quick question. Would allowing him to do his business on newspaper teach him it's ok to go in the house?
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
Yes, and no. LOL - no solution is perfect (except for the one few of us can actually provide - which is being home 24/7).

It will probably slow down your housetraining compared to if you could do the "ideal" thing and be there all the time to take him outside. But compared to him peeing in his crate? No, it won't be slower (that's inside too, after all).

Most puppies do seem to be able to differentiate between just peeing on the ground, and peeing on the newspaper provided. Partly that is because newspaper is nice and absorbant, whilst hard floors are not (ergo, if you pee on a hard floor, you're getting your feet wet - so not generally a technique favoured by the average puppy LOL). Plus, the newspaper "peeing place" always in the same place.

So, when you're home and you remove the newspaper - and instead have him out in the lounge (or wherever) and are taking him out at very regular short intervals PLUS watching him carefully between trips outside (and crating when you can't be watching), then there is little opportunity for the puppy to have accidents inside. In short, it's a management issue ;)

Paper training - which is effectively what this is - is the "old" style of housetraining. And it works pretty well. IMO bypassing the paper training and just going straight to outside is better - IF you're there 24/7. Crating might also be better, IF you can come home often enough.

For the majority of working people though, neither of those two options can really work - because they simply can't be home at the right times to make them work (as you can't). In those instances, paper training can really be the best, safest and fastest way to do it.
 

boxerbongee

Boxer Pal
Ok thanks. I'll give paper training a try. I'll just leave his crate door open and try and get him to do his business on the paper.
 

indylizzy

Boxer Pal
Sorry to hear about your little guy's pee pee problem - it can be hectic and heartbreaking to see him go in the house.

When I was housebreaking Lizzy, my 10 wk old pup, she only had access to one room and I laid out newspapers and "pee pee pads" (house breaking pads) by the door. There were a couple of mishaps in the house - but she instinctively knew to go to the pee pee pad or the newspaper - thus avoiding the floor and carpet and making clean up a breeze. Then I would spray Urine Off on the floor underneath the pads/newspaper - to rid of any of her scent (so she will not pick it up and continue to go in or around the spot she went before).

I also take her outside everytime she wakes up from napping, after eating, anytime she gets excited (she tends to want to relieve herself after any excitement transpires), before bed, and right away in the morning.

She has been with me for 2 weeks - and we are already at 1 week without an accident - and she was not housebroken when I brought her home.

I hope some of these suggestions are helpful!

Good Luck with your sweet little guy - He will get the hang of proper potty habits - as he is a smart one!
 

Jan

Reasonable Moderator
Staff member
I would get an exercise pen. I did that with Moto, as I was gone for too long to leave him in a crate. It worked just fine, though a few times when I was home he went into his pen to pee. :eek: That really wasn't what I had in mind. :) He only did it a couple of times. He eventually stopped peeing in the pen (on potty pads). He just tore up the pads instead. :( Your pup will eventually get it. It will just take a little longer.
 

boxerbongee

Boxer Pal
I tried the newspaper outside the crate and he still holds it until I get home. He refuses to go in the house. I told my vet about it and she said if he can hold it, let him. Don't encourage him to go in the house. If he can physically hold it, he will. It won't harm him to hold it for 6 hours.

At night he sleeps on the floor next to the bed. I took him out at 10:30 pm to do his business and he went to sleep at 11. He woke me up at 7 (By scratching at the bedroom door). i got up and let him out and he pee'd for a while. So he was holding it. She said to applaud his effort. Don't try to stunt it.

Now I'm confused!
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
*If* he is taking in sufficient fluids and still able to hang on for 6 hours (not 7?) then it isn't the end of the world (though probably the only 9 week old puppy I've ever heard of able to do that during the daytime). But you started from a position where the puppy was not getting any water ;)

Providing you've changed that: he has free access to fresh water continuously throughout the day, and the opportunity to urinate if he needs to - but is able to hold on, then it's not the end of the world (even if not ideal). But if it's done via water restriction, then it isn't OK. How much is he drinking during the day now, btw?

Incidentally, holding on during the day is completely different from during the night. Night time is deep sleep time - during which non-essential bodily functions such as urine production slow down to nearly stopped. If he's not producing much urine, it stands to reason he won't need to pee then (just the same as you don't have to). That is not applicable during the day, however, when urine production and ridding the body of toxins is full speed ahead (and it's problematic if it isn't). Thus, you just can't compare the two. MOST puppies start to sleep through the night around about this age. As already mentioned, it is not normal for a puppy of this age not to need to urinate during the daytime (assuming his water intake isn't being restricted, that is).
 
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