Odd coloring of "white" boxer

[sunbox]

Okay, this is the closest topic location that I could find for this question...

I already know that White Girl (that's her name, really) can't be shown, but I just had a genetic question about her color.

First of all, we have a friend whose mother breeds boxers, and she bred White Girl to a flashy fawn male. I know that genetically (I have looked this up) breeding two flashy boxers generally produces a few white pups. But with this litter, EVERY SINGLE PUP was a flashy fawn... and none of them had very much white.

The strange thing about White Girl is that she's... not really white... I mean, she is totally white with a fawn patch over her eye, but the coloring of her coat looks more like it was fawn, and then someone covered it in white paint. I'm not sure exactly how to explain that. She's noticable white, but when you get close to her, you can see what looks like patches of fawn all over her body UNDER the white fur.

I know for a fact that she's full blooded and AKC registered boxer... so it's not like a strange breeding thing... so could it be that she's not really white at all, since in her last two litters she never produced a white pup?

I'm just really confused, because I was upset at first that they were breeding a white boxer... but I guess they knew she wasn't truly "white"...

If anyone knows anything about the oddness of her coat color or the fact that she never had white pups... pleeeease let me know, I'm dying of curiosity.



Sunny

Former momma of Bella (flashy brindle male, floppy docked, adopted)
Future momma of Boston (flashy fawn male, floppy docked)

 

[sgbtab]

a white boxer should never be bred. ever!!! and you have done it twice. it's not about making more puppies. it's about bettering the breed and to tell you the truth it does not sound like that is what you are doing. boxer world does not allow back yard breeders.

 

[sunbox]

First of all, we have a friend whose mother breeds boxers

No, I personally DO NOT believe in breeding white boxers. I did not breed this boxer, and I will never breed boxers because I don't have the time or the proper education to do so. I have spoken with them about this on many occasions, and since they have been doing their own research, they will not be breeding White Girl anymore.


So please, before you accuse me of being a BYB, READ my post. I'm not promoting what they DO, that's THEIR business, not mine.

 

[boxerxbabe]

I think that was a little hasty of a reply... since if you read her post she indeed said she was not the one breeding her. But anyhow do you have any pictures of her like in your gallery or something? Thats interesting I am not sure what you mean by what you say but I am sure its one of those you have to see it type of things.

 

[GoCougs]

I'm just really confused, because I was upset at first that they were breeding a white boxer... but I guess they knew she wasn't truly "white"...

It's difficult to describe, but in a nutshell.....

First of all, genetically speaking, white is a marking, not a coat color like fawn or brindle. Therefore there is no such thing as a "truly white" boxer. Every white boxer is either brindle or fawn. It's just that the markings are such that the white completely covers it's body. As you may know there are only three marking patterns, plain or "classic", flashy, or white/checked.

There are two genes associated with marking, the solid color gene, and the white gene. Neither is dominant. A plain boxer has two solid color genes, flashy has one solid and one white, and whites have two white genes.

Since the male and female each pass on one-half of their genes, considering all possible combinations, in a perfect world a litter with the parentage you describe would be half flashy fawns and half whites. It just so happens that it's not a perfect world, and the male passed on to all of the pups the solid half of his gene combination and thusly resulted in all flashys. Solid fawns would be impossible in this litter.

Hope that explains the mystery.

On a side note, don't be so defensive. Irresponsible breeding is a touchy subject around here. If you are against the breeding of whites, and BYB, use your knowledge to educate others. This lady has no business in the breeding world, as it is obvious she is not interested in what is best for the breed but only for financial gain.

Cheers!

 

[Alisha Mobley]

First of all, we have a friend whose mother breeds boxers, and she bred White Girl to a flashy fawn male. I know that genetically (I have looked this up) breeding two flashy boxers generally produces a few white pups. But with this litter, EVERY SINGLE PUP was a flashy fawn... and none of them had very much white.

This is very well possible. With such breedings, whites and/or flashies can be produced. Usually you'll see both but not always. If one was to look at all breedings that contained a white parent and a flashy parent, they'd find about 50% of the total pups produced were white and 50% are flashy. But if you look at each litter, some may be 25/75, 50/50, all white, all flashy, etc.

The strange thing about White Girl is that she's... not really white... I mean, she is totally white with a fawn patch over her eye, but the coloring of her coat looks more like it was fawn, and then someone covered it in white paint. I'm not sure exactly how to explain that. She's noticable white, but when you get close to her, you can see what looks like patches of fawn all over her body UNDER the white fur.

She's still white and still carries two copies of the sw gene. I'd guess you're just seeing fawn hairs through out the white or you're talking about the spots of pigment that are normally seen on the skin of white Boxers.

I know for a fact that she's full blooded and AKC registered boxer... so it's not like a strange breeding thing... so could it be that she's not really white at all, since in her last two litters she never produced a white pup?

AKC papers don't mean anything...she could still be a mix. But, I'm guessing she's just a white Boxer. What color was the sire of the last two litters?

I'm just really confused, because I was upset at first that they were breeding a white boxer... but I guess they knew she wasn't truly "white"...

My guess is they knew she was white and either didn't care or just didn't know she shouldn't be bred.

I have spoken with them about this on many occasions, and since they have been doing their own research, they will not be breeding White Girl anymore.

Good job!

 

[sunbox]

Pup pics

I will get a picture of the mother next time I go over there, but I do have a picture of two of the pups (she just had a litter of 11).

I've heard people say that all fawn boxers usually have a black mask, but most all of these pups have a fawn face, and a white nose with black polka-dots on it. It's strange. White Girl's pup (which we got for our wedding gift) is Boston.



I'm putting three links and descriptions right here, since I can't seem to make my pictures SMALL enough to post them on BW and let people still see the detail.

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/234/3964/640/boxers 009.jpg
Boston with his UGA blanket, 4.5 weeks old (he stopped to visit on his way home from the vet, along with a few of his other littermates)


http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/234/3964/640/boxers 013.jpg
This is Boston's nose. It looks like it's ink-splattered.



Anyway, I'll have pictures of the momma next time I go over there. It'll be hard to capture with a camera, but I'll try.

 

[Alisha Mobley]

First of all, genetically speaking, white is a marking, not a coat color like fawn or brindle.

Technically, brindle is just a marking pattern as well. All Boxers are actually fawn.

 

[sunbox]

Thanks

Thanks so much, for all the quick replies.

I think she has all the good loving intentions of a good breeder, she just lacks a little in the knowledge department. She has many, actually most, of the luxaries that real breeders have, she just hasn't visited BoxerWorld enough to know about the coloring, etc. She did, however get all the health testing done, and she isn't in this for money, simply for the love of the breed. I've forwarded her son to BW and some articles, and hopefully they will learn a bit from here.

 

[GoCougs]

Technically, brindle is just a marking pattern as well. All Boxers are actually fawn.

Touche. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible.