Nutro Ultra & Innova Puppy???
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gmacleod:
In general - Would you say that the protein source in dry dog food comes from the meat sources only. I am looking at how the manufacturers break down their product performance and how to interpet this in conjunction with the ingredients listing in evaluating a brand ( not for puppies)
In general - Would you say that the protein source in dry dog food comes from the meat sources only. I am looking at how the manufacturers break down their product performance and how to interpet this in conjunction with the ingredients listing in evaluating a brand ( not for puppies)
Not at all. I'd say that a great deal (and in some cases the vast majority) of protein in dry dog food comes from grains.
But there's a big difference between crude protein and usable protein too
Protein that comes from meat sources is far more accessible (digestible) to a dog, and a far superior source of species-appropriate nutrition.
If you take a look at some seriously nasty foods on the market (eg. Pedigree puppy) you'll see that they manage to squeeze 27% crude protein out of a food that's primarily corn. Doesn't mean it's digestible/usable protein though. And that's why you have to feed such a huge amount of foods like that (in some cases more than double the amount of a premium food). Because the accessible nutrition is low.
Really, you just have to make an educated guess based on the combination of information you have available.
- You know they have to list ingredients in order of weight.
- You know that ingredients like "chicken" is inclusive of water content - once that's removed, the ingredient probably has a rightful place somewhat further down the ingredient list. Note that that doesn't make "chicken" bad - far from it. But if you've got "chicken" and it isn't immediately followed by a meat meal ingredient, then it's a fair bet that there isn't really much chicken in the food
- You know that ingreients like meat products contain protein. It's not the only ingredient that is a protein source though, so you can't rely on this one alone. But if you were looking at a food that had a couple of meat ingredients in the top five, and then 16 different grains for example, you've got to wonder how much meat is in the food. If you saw the protein content was very low, it would just confirm your suspicion that there was very little actual meat. Or put another way, high protein doesn't prove the existence of meat, but very low protein would prove it's non-existence. So it's still useful information - but means little on it's own.
Just for the sake of general info. since you mentioned manufacturers disclosing percentages earlier: on this side of the pond, labelling laws do require a certain amount of disclosure (of the top couple of ingredients, anyway). And a reasonably "good" dog food (middle of the range sort of food) like Nutro Natural Choice has about 20% meat. Some of the really seriously nasty foods have as little as 4%.
There are precious few premium foods over here though, so it's hard to say about how much might be in some of the "top of the range" foods. It would surprise me if it's more than about 35-40% in the very best of them though. That's why it's such an issue to see an ingredient list from which you can deduce that there's a decent amount of meat product in the food. Because "decent" still doesn't mean very much at all!
Compare it with a raw natural diet - where the most ardent of vegetable feeders still feed about 80% of the total diet as meaty bones/offal (and most more like 90%), and you start to get a feel for how incredibly low that meat amount in kibble really is.
But there's a big difference between crude protein and usable protein too
Protein that comes from meat sources is far more accessible (digestible) to a dog, and a far superior source of species-appropriate nutrition.If you take a look at some seriously nasty foods on the market (eg. Pedigree puppy) you'll see that they manage to squeeze 27% crude protein out of a food that's primarily corn. Doesn't mean it's digestible/usable protein though. And that's why you have to feed such a huge amount of foods like that (in some cases more than double the amount of a premium food). Because the accessible nutrition is low.
Really, you just have to make an educated guess based on the combination of information you have available.
- You know they have to list ingredients in order of weight.
- You know that ingredients like "chicken" is inclusive of water content - once that's removed, the ingredient probably has a rightful place somewhat further down the ingredient list. Note that that doesn't make "chicken" bad - far from it. But if you've got "chicken" and it isn't immediately followed by a meat meal ingredient, then it's a fair bet that there isn't really much chicken in the food
- You know that ingreients like meat products contain protein. It's not the only ingredient that is a protein source though, so you can't rely on this one alone. But if you were looking at a food that had a couple of meat ingredients in the top five, and then 16 different grains for example, you've got to wonder how much meat is in the food. If you saw the protein content was very low, it would just confirm your suspicion that there was very little actual meat. Or put another way, high protein doesn't prove the existence of meat, but very low protein would prove it's non-existence. So it's still useful information - but means little on it's own.
Just for the sake of general info. since you mentioned manufacturers disclosing percentages earlier: on this side of the pond, labelling laws do require a certain amount of disclosure (of the top couple of ingredients, anyway). And a reasonably "good" dog food (middle of the range sort of food) like Nutro Natural Choice has about 20% meat. Some of the really seriously nasty foods have as little as 4%.
There are precious few premium foods over here though, so it's hard to say about how much might be in some of the "top of the range" foods. It would surprise me if it's more than about 35-40% in the very best of them though. That's why it's such an issue to see an ingredient list from which you can deduce that there's a decent amount of meat product in the food. Because "decent" still doesn't mean very much at all!
Compare it with a raw natural diet - where the most ardent of vegetable feeders still feed about 80% of the total diet as meaty bones/offal (and most more like 90%), and you start to get a feel for how incredibly low that meat amount in kibble really is.
Lisagail
Boxer Buddy
My little girl will be home Tuesday and I'm going with Innova. Although I was impressed with the Nutro Ultra, I think Innova may be a bit better but what do I really know. I do know that if she doesn't like Innova, my second choice is Solid Gold then Canidae. I do think Canidae will be my choice when she's done with puppy food which I think will be around 4-6 months from what I've read and heard from members here.
where do you go to get foods like Innova?
Cheryl&Ellie
Super Boxer
We're having problems with Ellie and her food, she's on Wellness Puppy and she hasn't had a solid poop. My two BT's do fine on this food. So I went out thinking that Nutro was a good choice and I see it's not.
We can get brands like Merrick's, Chicken Soup, Solid Gold, Royal Caine(sp), Natural Balance. These brands are available in our area.
Out of the brands that I listed above could someone please let me know what would be my best choice or number them from 1-5.
Plus out of these brands do you get adult of puppy?
I've read so much it's getting confusing and we don't have access to Innova which sounds like a great choice.
Thanks!
We can get brands like Merrick's, Chicken Soup, Solid Gold, Royal Caine(sp), Natural Balance. These brands are available in our area.
Out of the brands that I listed above could someone please let me know what would be my best choice or number them from 1-5.
Plus out of these brands do you get adult of puppy?
I've read so much it's getting confusing and we don't have access to Innova which sounds like a great choice.
Thanks!
mastaxmy
Boxer Pal
I'm not sure if this helps or not but I used to feed my boxer Eukanuba. Abbi got very flakey and she lost alot of fur. Ever since I changed to Nutro Ultra, she has shiny coat and she doesn't flake anymore. One thing I noticed though was her stool is a bit more loose than when I was feeding her Eukanuba.
Actually, Nutro's Ultra is still a good food. This thread was about a comparison between it and Innova - and the conclusion is that Innova is a higher quality product. That doesn't make the Ultra bad though - and it's still very much better than many other foods out there.Cheryl&Ellie said:
That does not apply to the rest of Nutro's products, of course. It is only the Ultra formulation that makes it into the premium category.
Out of that selection, I would rate them in the following order:
1. Chicken Soup (either adult or puppy is fine - the only difference is that the puppy formula contains slightly more chicken fat), and I'd rate this food right alongside Innova for quality.
2. Merrick (again, either puppy or adult formula).
3. Natural Balance (but note that some formulas are better than others).
4. Solid Gold
5. Royal Canin (but only the Natural Blend formula - the others are low/mid grade foods that I'd pass on completely).
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