Nutro Ultra & Innova Puppy???
- Thread starter paulkdj
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Tatertot
Completely Boxer Crazy
Nutro is not the best food. Harley was on it when I first got him. At the time I wasnt a boxerworld member, I didnt know about quality foods. He always had dandruff, his eyes were always leaking HORRIBLY.
He also had kennel cough for about a month and it never improved. Then I found BW and found out about better foods. I switched Harley to Canidae and his eyes were better, his coat was nicer, AND his kennel cough went away! Even medication didnt do that.
I dont recommend Nutro to anybody, even though our experience is one in a million.
I'm not familiar at all with Innova though. I do recommend Canidae and Eagle Pack
He also had kennel cough for about a month and it never improved. Then I found BW and found out about better foods. I switched Harley to Canidae and his eyes were better, his coat was nicer, AND his kennel cough went away! Even medication didnt do that.
I dont recommend Nutro to anybody, even though our experience is one in a million.
I'm not familiar at all with Innova though. I do recommend Canidae and Eagle Pack
courtney323
Energetic Moderator<br><img src="/forums/images/mo
I wish all questions were this easy 
Innova, without a doubt.
Innova, without a doubt.
paulkdj said:
We chose to go with the Nutro Ultra from the start and have not regretted the decision.
I went to the Innova website to locate the ingredients AS IT APPEARS ON THE BAG but was not able to locate this but as best I can tell it looks like the puppy formula is only poultry(chicken and turkey) (with herring somewhere in the mix).
Personally since both meet the guidlines on what to look for in a premium kibble ( http://www.boxerworld.com/feeding/) , I would STILL chose the Nutro because of the variety it offers as it contains chicken, lamb and fish meal.
courtney323
Energetic Moderator<br><img src="/forums/images/mo
Here are the ingredients, if it helps:
Ultra:
Chicken meal, brown rice, ground rice, lamb meal, rice bran, sunflower oil, poultry fat, salmon meal, flaxseed, natural flavors, oatmeal, alfalfa meal, beet pulp, tomato pomace, cranberry powder, fish oil, potassium chloride, dried egg product, L-Lysine, dried kelp meal, taurine, bacillus licheniformis fermentation extract, bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, l-carnitine, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, garlic (natural source of selenium), marigold extract (natural source of lutein).
Innova:
Turkey
Chicken
Chicken Meal
Ground Barley
Ground Brown Rice
Cottage Cheese
Tomatoes
Sunflower Oil
Chicken Fat
Natural Flavors
Flaxseed
Potatoes
Herring
Apples
Carrots
Alfalfa Sprouts
Egg
Garlic
Chicory Root Extract
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms
So yes, the Innova formula is a Chicken/Turkey based formula (with Herring further down the list), but it has much more meat in it than the Ultra. It also does not contain beet pulp or rice bran, etc..
Both foods make the WDJ list as "premium" kibbles, but Innova is a better all around food
Ultra:
Chicken meal, brown rice, ground rice, lamb meal, rice bran, sunflower oil, poultry fat, salmon meal, flaxseed, natural flavors, oatmeal, alfalfa meal, beet pulp, tomato pomace, cranberry powder, fish oil, potassium chloride, dried egg product, L-Lysine, dried kelp meal, taurine, bacillus licheniformis fermentation extract, bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, l-carnitine, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, garlic (natural source of selenium), marigold extract (natural source of lutein).
Innova:
Turkey
Chicken
Chicken Meal
Ground Barley
Ground Brown Rice
Cottage Cheese
Tomatoes
Sunflower Oil
Chicken Fat
Natural Flavors
Flaxseed
Potatoes
Herring
Apples
Carrots
Alfalfa Sprouts
Egg
Garlic
Chicory Root Extract
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms
So yes, the Innova formula is a Chicken/Turkey based formula (with Herring further down the list), but it has much more meat in it than the Ultra. It also does not contain beet pulp or rice bran, etc..
Both foods make the WDJ list as "premium" kibbles, but Innova is a better all around food
Actually, in my opinion ( and I stress MY opinion ), the way Innova is listing their 3 top ingredients can be misleading because they are basically "reverse" splitting (see below) the poultry into 3 ingredients when I would consider them all as one - one being poultry ( don't see much of a difference between chicken and turkey). [This would put only one meat in the top 5 ingredients for the Innova, whereas Nutro has 2 in the top five ingredients. ] Poultry is still the first ingredient but since any ingredients list is based on "relative "weight (relative to the other ingredients in that same list) not actual weight (independent of the other ingredients in the list) it is hard to say that one has more of the first ingredient than another brand without an actual weight measurement to compare.
It would be alot simplier for the consumer if they would just tell you exactly how much of each item is in the mix.( ie. 1 cup of this product contains: x grams or x ounces ). The way the manufacturer's are allowed to list ingredients just allows them the opportunity to mislead the public.
Excerpts taken from the nutrition section:
.....So, look at the top five or so ingredients - these form the major portion of the food. The ingredients in dog food are required to be listed in order of weight. So that means that the first ingredient on the list is the one with the greatest volume in the food. We want this to be a named meat source – eg. Chicken, beef or lamb. Never unidentified “meat” and never a "by-product". Note also that since the list runs in order of weight, it is better to see “chicken meal” than “chicken” at the top of the list. “Chicken” includes a high degree of water content, “chicken meal” does not – so with “chicken” it is quite possible that once the water content is removed, it may actually be the fourth or fifth ingredient, not necessarily the first as suggested......
Cunning deceptions and other issues:
“Splitting” This is where the manufacturer “splits” the total amount of an ingredient into component parts to make it appear as though there is a lesser amount of the ingredient. An example would be an ingredient list that read like “chicken meal, ground corn, brown rice, corn gluten meal, lamb meal…”. Looks OK – the top ingredient is chicken meal. But is it really? Well, probably not. The manufacturer has “split” the corn content into component parts of ‘ground corn’ and ‘corn gluten meal’. As a total, the corn content is probably greater than the chicken meal (remember that we don’t know the %, only the order of weight).
), the way Innova is listing their 3 top ingredients can be misleading because they are basically "reverse" splitting (see below) the poultry into 3 ingredients when I would consider them all as one - one being poultry ( don't see much of a difference between chicken and turkey). [This would put only one meat in the top 5 ingredients for the Innova, whereas Nutro has 2 in the top five ingredients. ] Poultry is still the first ingredient but since any ingredients list is based on "relative "weight (relative to the other ingredients in that same list) not actual weight (independent of the other ingredients in the list) it is hard to say that one has more of the first ingredient than another brand without an actual weight measurement to compare.It would be alot simplier for the consumer if they would just tell you exactly how much of each item is in the mix.( ie. 1 cup of this product contains: x grams or x ounces ). The way the manufacturer's are allowed to list ingredients just allows them the opportunity to mislead the public.
Excerpts taken from the nutrition section:
.....So, look at the top five or so ingredients - these form the major portion of the food. The ingredients in dog food are required to be listed in order of weight. So that means that the first ingredient on the list is the one with the greatest volume in the food. We want this to be a named meat source – eg. Chicken, beef or lamb. Never unidentified “meat” and never a "by-product". Note also that since the list runs in order of weight, it is better to see “chicken meal” than “chicken” at the top of the list. “Chicken” includes a high degree of water content, “chicken meal” does not – so with “chicken” it is quite possible that once the water content is removed, it may actually be the fourth or fifth ingredient, not necessarily the first as suggested......
Cunning deceptions and other issues:
“Splitting” This is where the manufacturer “splits” the total amount of an ingredient into component parts to make it appear as though there is a lesser amount of the ingredient. An example would be an ingredient list that read like “chicken meal, ground corn, brown rice, corn gluten meal, lamb meal…”. Looks OK – the top ingredient is chicken meal. But is it really? Well, probably not. The manufacturer has “split” the corn content into component parts of ‘ground corn’ and ‘corn gluten meal’. As a total, the corn content is probably greater than the chicken meal (remember that we don’t know the %, only the order of weight).
Both rate as good foods, but I think there is little doubt that the Innova is the better of the two
Just read the top five ingredients (the bulk of the food) and you should immediately see why.
For Innova, that is turkey, chicken, chicken meal, ground barley and ground rice. Throw in cottage cheese too as the "real" fifth ingredient, since you should always mentally add different forms of the same ingredient together (in this case, chicken and chicken meal) - see the note about "splitting" on our feeding page. That's pretty good Two (not 3, since we're combining different forms of the same ingredient) named meat sources in the top five ingredients, followed by two good quality whole grains.
For the Nutro Ultra, the list is chicken meal, brown rice, ground rice, lamb meal, rice bran. Throw in sunflower oil after you've mentally added the two forms of rice together. But note that in doing that, rice is probably the number one ingredient in this food So the "real" ingredient list in this food is probably "rice, chicken meal, lamb meal, rice bran, sunflower oil..."
So one thing we can be reasonably sure of already is that there is substantially more meat in the Innova product than the Nutro Ultra one.
And then when we look further down the ingredient lists, we can note that the Ultra contains some fillers and controversial ingredients. Rice bran is a grain fragment (otherwise known as filler) for which the AAFCO definition is "the pericarp or bran layer and germ of the rice, with only such quantity of hull fragments, chipped, broken, or brewer's rice, and calcium carbonate as is unavoidable in the regular milling of edible rice". That's not that bad, but it's not that great either.
And then there's the beet pulp... Beet pulp is one of those controversial ingredients that some food manufacturers claim is a good source of fibre. Other manufacturers claim that it is added to pet food to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats, resulting in stress to the kidney and liver. I note that it is found in very few foods that could be considered premium ones (actually Ultra may even be the only one) but it is present in most low quality foods. One thing it certainly does is cause allergy problems and exacerbates or causes yeast infections in a lot of dogs - and there are many cases on these forums where elimination of that particular ingredient from the dog's diet has improved it's overall health and quality of life immeasurably. It is something worth avoiding if possible IMO.
Lastly, there is the inclusion of fruits and vegetables. I note that the Innova has a far more extensive range than Ultra does. Fruit and vegetables isn't necessarily an essential part of a dog's diet - but it's rather more of a natural food for them than grains ever will be. Of course we can only ever make educated guesses at the amounts of any ingredient contained in dog foods, because food manufacturers don't actually tell the percentages (and I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised if they did). But the ingredient list of Innova is far more suggestive of a food that is high in meat content and moderate in grains than the Ultra.
Ideally, of course, you're not going to feed your dog the same food all of the time anyway. If you can manage it, it's far better to rotate between foods than stick with the same one for extended periods, especially if that also means a change in the main (number one ingredient) protein source. Aside from giving your dog a change, it helps to prevent allergies from occuring if the dog does not eat the same food on a constant basis.
Just read the top five ingredients (the bulk of the food) and you should immediately see why.
For Innova, that is turkey, chicken, chicken meal, ground barley and ground rice. Throw in cottage cheese too as the "real" fifth ingredient, since you should always mentally add different forms of the same ingredient together (in this case, chicken and chicken meal) - see the note about "splitting" on our feeding page. That's pretty good
Two (not 3, since we're combining different forms of the same ingredient) named meat sources in the top five ingredients, followed by two good quality whole grains.For the Nutro Ultra, the list is chicken meal, brown rice, ground rice, lamb meal, rice bran. Throw in sunflower oil after you've mentally added the two forms of rice together. But note that in doing that, rice is probably the number one ingredient in this food
So the "real" ingredient list in this food is probably "rice, chicken meal, lamb meal, rice bran, sunflower oil..."So one thing we can be reasonably sure of already is that there is substantially more meat in the Innova product than the Nutro Ultra one.
And then when we look further down the ingredient lists, we can note that the Ultra contains some fillers and controversial ingredients. Rice bran is a grain fragment (otherwise known as filler) for which the AAFCO definition is "the pericarp or bran layer and germ of the rice, with only such quantity of hull fragments, chipped, broken, or brewer's rice, and calcium carbonate as is unavoidable in the regular milling of edible rice". That's not that bad, but it's not that great either.
And then there's the beet pulp... Beet pulp is one of those controversial ingredients that some food manufacturers claim is a good source of fibre. Other manufacturers claim that it is added to pet food to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats, resulting in stress to the kidney and liver. I note that it is found in very few foods that could be considered premium ones (actually Ultra may even be the only one) but it is present in most low quality foods. One thing it certainly does is cause allergy problems and exacerbates or causes yeast infections in a lot of dogs - and there are many cases on these forums where elimination of that particular ingredient from the dog's diet has improved it's overall health and quality of life immeasurably. It is something worth avoiding if possible IMO.
Lastly, there is the inclusion of fruits and vegetables. I note that the Innova has a far more extensive range than Ultra does. Fruit and vegetables isn't necessarily an essential part of a dog's diet - but it's rather more of a natural food for them than grains ever will be. Of course we can only ever make educated guesses at the amounts of any ingredient contained in dog foods, because food manufacturers don't actually tell the percentages (and I think many people would be unpleasantly surprised if they did). But the ingredient list of Innova is far more suggestive of a food that is high in meat content and moderate in grains than the Ultra.
Ideally, of course, you're not going to feed your dog the same food all of the time anyway. If you can manage it, it's far better to rotate between foods than stick with the same one for extended periods, especially if that also means a change in the main (number one ingredient) protein source. Aside from giving your dog a change, it helps to prevent allergies from occuring if the dog does not eat the same food on a constant basis.
Konakoffe: You're right to an extent about Innova and the splitting of ingredients. Insofar as chicken goes, anyway. I would not consider turkey the same as chicken though, nor duck, pheasant or any other form of poultry. The point of splitting/un-splitting ingredients though, is to estimate how much meat product is in the food. Not how many different animals it came from. If you want variety in meat sources, it is better to rotate through different foods, not try to get a little bit of all of them into the same bag.
But you need to apply your argument to the Nutro too Can't have your cake and the eating of it LOL
See what happens when you "un-split" the two forms of rice in that food. Chances are, that is the primary ingredient...
It most certainly would be! But as stated above, I suspect it would be an uncomfortable revelation. One thing is for certain: without labelling laws to require it, it's not something any food manufacturer is about to disclose any time soon.
But you need to apply your argument to the Nutro too
Can't have your cake and the eating of it LOLSee what happens when you "un-split" the two forms of rice in that food. Chances are, that is the primary ingredient...
KonaKoffe said:
It most certainly would be! But as stated above, I suspect it would be an uncomfortable revelation. One thing is for certain: without labelling laws to require it, it's not something any food manufacturer is about to disclose any time soon.
paulkdj
Boxer Pal
Wow, I thank you all for such precise answers!!! It's just great!!! I went on the Nutro Ultra website and in the performance section list a bunch of comparables to the top premium dry foods. I don't believe they can make these statements without any sources to back up their claims. I could be wrong, I know Innova is a great food and that is what I fed my last Boxer but the information on this website makes you think and makes you want to try it. All the info beats out pretty much all the competitors.
http://www.ultraholistic.com/performance.shtml
http://www.ultraholistic.com/performance.shtml
gmacleod said:But you need to apply your argument to the Nutro too
See what happens when you "un-split" the two forms of rice in that food. Chances are, that is the primary ingredient...
QUOTE]
Actually, I do consider the two rice items as one and you are absolutely right- that possibly could bring its total weight up to the first ingredient. - good point. We'll never know
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