Nico getting thyroid panel done/allergy question

[Nicos mom]

Hi all - I decided to take your advice and have Nico's thyroid checked given that we are dealing with allergies that don't really seem to be seasonal, and his very thin coat and dry skin. My vet had never heard of hemopet and always does her labs at Michigan State, so that is what I went with.

So the question really is, since some of you say that what is normal for many dogs is low for a boxer, what should I be looking at in terms of an issue? Some ballpark numbers or levels would be helpful. We just did the blood draw today.

In terms of allergies, (I guess this is a two-parter!) I am truly confused. We got him from a rescue group, who did a panel on him (Spectrum Labs) and we found a handful of food allergies which are quite manageable, but the environmental ones are very hard to control. And I am trying to figure out if the environmental ones are from him simply breathing or snorting this stuff in, or is it from contact, etc? He eats AvoDerm Lamb and Rice kibble with Nature's Variety raw chicken formula. We would like to go more raw but when we did, he got diarrhea/soft poops. Foods he was shown to be allergic to: beef, wheat, white potato, peanuts, venison, fish mix and milk. Any thoughts on any of this would be really, really appreciated. He's on low doses of antihistamines and pred, but we'd prefer to get him off that stuff.

Thanks from Nico and Nico's mom!

 

[Cami]

Michigan State will be fine. They will be testing for the same thing Hemopet would (if it was requested from your vet in the instructions for testing).
Hemopet just takes things a bit further and focuses on the breed and since so many Boxers are prone to thyroid issues their "baseline" for them differs somewhat than typical labs. They also keep the owner closely informed by sending results directly to you via e-mail (as well as your vet). I had them before my vet did!
They go even one step further and discuss how to treat, the possible dose to use and how to give it (very important).
Other labs tend to give you a generic version of their findings.
"These are the numbers and yes, your dog has an issue and treatment would be warranted" or "No, this dog does not test positive for a thyroid issue."
Not verbatim of course but you get the drift.

My girl Cami was allergic to everything she was tested for. She hit off the charts high on too many items to count. She was even allergic to her own yeast and her best friend (my cat).
It is terribly difficult to keep them from allergens but you do your best and try to avoid as many of them as possible.
We made a huge dent in her itchiness by changing things up at home but once she started meds for her thyroid she was a different dog. If you didn't know she had allergies you would never suspect it by her actions. She was no longer an itchy dog. I don't even know how much stock I put into the allergy testing since such a simple medication made such a world of difference. Perhaps with the supplements aiding in her thyroid function it helped her own body better deal with the allergens??
I'll never know.

Really aren't any ball park numbers for you to utilize. The lab will have their own set of ranges and until you get the results you won't know what to look for. Once you have them in hand you can use a formula (found here in many posts) to determine the 50% range for Nico. If you calculate below that 50% number then supplementation could make a world of difference (despite what the lab analysis says).

You should have your results by weeks end next week. Waiting is the hardest part but you did the testing so you are on your way to some answers at minimum. If it turns out the thyroid is fine then you move on to plan B which would be attacking the allergens themselves.

 

[Nicos mom]

Thanks again!

Thanks for this, Cami. I will just wait and see what the results are and go from there.

 

[Nicos mom]

Nico's thyroid panel results (and more)

TT4 - 10 (Range 11-60)
TT3 - 1.1 (0.8-2.1)
FT4 - 10 (6-23)
FT3 - 3.2 (1.2-8.2)
T4 autoantibody - 12 (0-20)
T3 autoanitbody - 5 (0-10)
TSH - 13 (0-30)
Thyroglobulin autoantibody - 6 (0-35)

But now we have a bigger problem. We went ahead and had a complete blood panel done at the same time. All of his number came back in very good ranges except one: LIPA (lipase) which was off the charts and out of the stratosphere at 6,000 (high end of the range was 1,800.) We are waiting to hear from the vet to see if that could possibly be an error or if we are now looking at pancreatic cancer. Somehow the allergies just don't seem to be an issue anymore....

Knowing this, if he were your dog and these if thyroid results seem to be on the low end, would you treat your dog for thyroid? He has no symptoms of any pancreatic stress whatsoever - this is a huge shock and a major blow. We are completely in love with him, and have only had him a few months. He's 3. Thanks for any insight.

 

[Cami]

My girls tests were better than you have and she was put on meds. These numbers are well below the 50% range and would warrant supplementation (after approval of course from your vet). A quick glance shows....pretty much everything is below the 50% range with the exception of:
T4 AA which is 2 points above the 50% range
T3 AA which is right at the 50% range
Based on the TGAA test alone I would suspect at minimum a thyroiditis diagnosis. What does the rest of the report say? What did your vet say? The most common test and best indicator for a thyroid issue for *most* vets is the T4 and your number is below the normal references ranges. Had that been the only test you did *most* vets would prescribe supplementation especially with symptoms present.
To get the 50% range take both numbers of the reference ranges. For example using your T4:
Range is 11-60
Add those together and you get 71.
Divide by 2 = 35.5
You want to be at or above that 35.5. Nico is at 10!!
Well below the 50% range.

Regarding the elevated lipase readings. I'd not jump directly to a cancer diagnosis. There are various other reasons as to why that number could be elevated. Kidney issues, dehydration, pancreatitis (a-symptomatic), infection, etc...
I'd more so be trying to see what the correlation is with the other liver number "amylase". Was it elevated as well?

 

[Nicos mom]

THanks Cami

Cami - The report - and my vet said all this looked normal and thyroiditis did not seem to be present in this dog. I think we are going to seek out another vet. We just got the dog and she was recommended but she seems pretty apathetic. Nico is really itching tonight more so than I've seen. His chin is bleeding a bit, and he's' rolling around, paws to face, I'm sure you know what I mean. NONE of his other numbers are elevated. And when my husband spoke with the vet this morning she wasn't at all concerned, saying that they don't worry about this number, if it was her dog she wouldn't do anything but watch..... Also - the TT4 was 19, not 10. My mistake. Still lower end, though..

When you say supplement, what do you mean? I really want to get Nico on this to see if it indeed a thyroid thing. Poor baby! Thanks again for all your help with this, I do appreciate it immensely.

 

[Cami]

Thyroid medication (supplement). I used the words interchangeably sometimes! You are supplementing the thyroid hormone with a synthetic version.
I'd not discount the vet just yet but I would ask for a sit down consult so that you could express your feelings. I'd also take some info with me to show why I have concerns. You could even print this out....
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/HowtoAnayzeYourDogsThyroidTestResults.pdf

The vet can't discount the numbers and more often than not they should "treat the patient" not just the numbers.
Boxers ARE different when it comes to so many health issues and tests. I'd not suspect that even a good portion of vets know this but one that is passionate about vet medicine and treats a lot of Boxers should be able to admit to and understand their differences. Other breeds have their own set of issues as well and a well seasoned vet will know what they are. I don't expect every vet to know the in's and out's of every breed but Boxers are certainly a common enough breed that their experience with them should not be lacking.

If you want to take your test results to another vet do so but make sure to tell them going in that you really suspect *something* and the current test shows low numbers. You'd like their opinion and possibly a "trial run" of the meds to see if you notice a decline in his symptoms. A very low dose should show positive results is a very short period of time. To be honest with those numbers a low dose should help them raise a bit (and you will have to have additional testing in 4-6 weeks. A post pill test).

Hopefully you find an understanding vet who is willing to think outside the box! They ARE out there.

 

[Nicos mom]

Thanks once more. We just feel that this vet is young and we aren't really "feeling it" with her. She's somewhat dismissive, and not all that empathetic. My husband is a naturopath and a New Yorker who can have "an edge" at times, ha, so maybe we are just too much for her. We ask a lot of questions and I won't apologize for that. The bottom line is that we need someone who is willing to hear us and, as you said, think outside the box. When I mentioned Hemopet to her initially she said she'd never heard of them and I didn't feel the vibe that she wanted to deal with it so I said Michigan State is fine. The thing is that he's getting a benadryl every day and 10mg of pred every other day. Still itching. Tonight was really bad. At any rate I can't say enough how much I appreciate your help and experience with this. I will keep you posted!

 

[Nicos mom]

One other question, is, if we can find someone who will give us these meds for thyroid, do you think we should take him off all the other meds to make sure its the thyroid supplement that is doing the job?

 

[Cami]

It's been my experience that *if* the cause for a good portion of the allergy-like symptoms (itching, etc...) is a direct result of an under active thyroid then supplementation will help in that area. This allows for the doses of the meds to be lowered or in a lot of cases discontinued. I'd not stop what he is on currently (if it is helping) until the thyroid meds (you want Soloxine) has been in his system long enough to provide results.
Benadryl and pred. won't affect the thyroid meds (keep it from working).