Need help with Border Collie behavior

[skankweirdall]

OK, when we lost our Somba earlier this year we went looking for a dog to rescue. Of course we had a boxer in mind but they are hard to find in the pounds. Anyway, while searching the pounds I came across this very forlorn looking young adult black and white Border Collie. She was just so sweet and demure I couldn't help myself. She was just brought in as a stray, no collar, no tags so we had to wait two weeks. We put a hold on her and I visited her everyday. She tested positive for heartworms so I paid for that treatment too. We took her home after her spay surgery and everything was fine. About a month later I took her back for her heartworm treatment and that all went fine. Which brings me up to now.

She has been very aggressive with our Shephard/Chow mix female here lately. Some pretty vicious fighting between the two. Both my wife and me have been bitten trying to separate them. Most of the time they seem to get along pretty good and both are laying together under the desk right now with no problems.

I've been told the BC is aserting her alpha status and the S/C must in some way be challenging this. My question is can I stop this? The BC is very controlling and will herd the S/C around. I understand that is their instinct. We've been trying to show the BC pride of place by giving her whatever first and so on, but these very vicious fights have not stopped. They are infrequent about 5 since she's been here. But that doesn't help. I can't have this going on in my house. Can anyone here help me out?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Muttluvr]

Hmm, does anything seem to be triggering the fights? Do they fight over food or toys? Is it when the BC tries to herd your other dog? Or is it just out of the blue?

 

[skankweirdall]

Well, a couple times I could see a trigger, but a couple times it just appeared to happen out of the blue.

The first time the BC, Sweetie, was eating when the S/C, Baby was coming around trying to eat out of her bowl. Sweetie snapped at her a couple times but I guess Baby didn't get the message so the third time Sweetie went after her. Even though Baby was trying to get away Sweetie just kept chasing her down. I thought she was going to kill her. I managed to pull her off and got her in her cage. The next day every thing seemed fine. About a month later the two had come in from outside and Sweetie was laying at my feet under the desk. Baby came over and was just standing beside me and looking at Sweetie. The growling started and then all heck broke loose, one of them got my knee because I couldn't get up fast enough. Everything was fine again.

About two weeks later they had some chew bones, Baby came up and took Sweetie's right out of her mouth. Sweetie didn't seem to mind this at all but when I went to take the bone away from Baby she kind of growled(she is a very vocal dog, always trying to say something) and Sweetie just pounced on her. Again, sweetie wouldn't stop, chased her down until I pulled them apart.

Next time they were both laying in front of the vanity facing each other while my wife was getting ready for work. They were fine, wagging their tails and all, my wife reached down to get a Q tip and patted Baby on the head, Sweetie growled and Baby growled, then Sweetie just pounced again. My wife was caught in the middle this time. She managed to get them apart and in their cages. That evening everything was fine again.

Last night it was a similar bone thing. They were stealing each others back and forth, that didn't seem to bother any one until my wife went to take Sweeties bone away from Baby. Sweetie went after Baby again, this time they got my wife in two places on her leg and got her hand really good too.

I'm sure neither one really meant to bite my wife, she just happened to be in the middle. My wife still doesn't want to get rid of her though if we don't have to. She has never been aggressive to any of us or the kids, just the one other dog. I might add that she is an *intensive* dog. She can be just as sweet and loving as can be, but I can't continue to have this in my house. Who knows who might be in the middle the next time.



Thanks,
Steve

 

[bustermom]

There was another member who recently posted a similar problem - the dogs were aggressive with just each other. Here's a link to that thread as some of the suggestions may be relevant for your situation (some of the posts on this particular thread were a tad emotional, but there is still a goodly amount of useful advice that can be pulled from it):

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30584

To be honest, it sounds like they're having dominance issues - trying to work out who outranks who in the pack. It doesn't sound like any of the instances are out of the blue - if you look closely, there seems to be a trigger in each one - whether it's attention, toy/food, who gets to be closest to the alphas (you and your wife), defending the alpha, etc.

I'd read through the above thread, and also suggest reading two books: "Culture Clash" and "The Dog Listener". You can do a search here on BW for those books, to see how other people have used them to resolve similar problems. Also do a search on resource guarding and other related terms.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[skankweirdall]

Thanks Bustermom, I'll check it out.

 

[Tam319]

Hi,

We are going through a similar period at our house. Our terrier neutered male has always been boss. Now Layla (intact bitch) is maturing and she figures that SHE should be the boss. This has resulted in lots of spats lately.

One thing that works for us is KNOW THE TRIGGERS (food, attention, etc.) and AVOID CONFLICT. If you know that bones or food are a problem then feed them in separate rooms or in their crates. This way the conflict is avoided. With dominant dogs and submissive dogs what usually happens is the dominant dog takes the food, bone, toy, etc. and the submissive dog says "OK, whatever you say" and backs away.

With two dogs that are both somewhat dominant neither of them backs down (which is the case we have at our house right now) and the result is a scrap. I'm hoping they will soon sort out who is the boss and in the meantime just provide damage control by preventing and minimizing the fights they do have.

If you HAVE to break up a fight for the dogs safety the best thing to do is not get in the way. Turning a garden hose on them is effective. Or you could throw a blanket or jacket over them (I am leery of this in case one dog continues to attack the other dog who may be blinded and trapped under the blanket). If its REALLY bad at our house and I am really scared for their safety I try to grab onto one of the dogs by the back legs while my fiancee grabs the other by the back legs and pull them apart. If you only pull one dog away the other may continue to attack the other dog. The back legs is safer than grabbing the collar, neck or face because there is less of a chance that you will get bit.

Hope this helps. This is what works for us in our home.

Tamara

 

[Q'sMom]

We had many BC's growing up. The most important thing with a Border is that they HAVE to have a job to do. It sounds like, besides establishing who is in charge, Sweetie is looking for a job. Right now, it seems like herding Baby and looking after you is her job. Borders are much more manageable when they have a job. They were bred to herd sheep and keep them in line in the high lands of Scotland. They were bred to work all day, they need the mental workout as much as the physical. Get Sweetie a job. For example, Borders make excellent agility dogs, frisbee is a great job, fetching, etc. Something that is hers and hers alone would probably be better. Borders are extremely intelligent, use this to your advantage. Teach her things and she "should" refocus her energy. Good Luck and keep us posted!

 

[brwneyesk8]

(long) Border Collies...

Q'sMom is absolutely right!! BC's NEED constant stimulation! Mental AND physical. If Sweetie is NOT getting this then she will have no other outlet for her energy and boredom. She will take it out on Baby and eventually out on you. Keep her busy! Check sites for ways to exercies BC's and to help you learn more training techniques. A BC is very much a HUGE responsibilty that most people are not ready for. A main reason that people abandon these dogs is b/c they don't realize the commitment it takes to own a BC. I'm sure that you would do anything to help your pup! :p

The other issue (and this is from experience) is this:
My BC, was a wonderful dog! I ran her like crazy day in and day out. We played ball, ran obstacle courses (around trees and bushes in the yard) b/c we didn't have a whole lot of room, we made do with what we had. She was wonderful with people coming and going. Until...the devilspawn kids next door began to antagonize her. When we weren't looking (if she was outside alone), they would throw rocks at her, poke her with sticks and anything else that came to their minds. After a while she began fearing ANYONE that came to the door (with the exception of my immediate family, my best friend and my brothers best friend). Any one else she would snarl, bear her teeth, growl and bark. At this point we didn't know what was happening with the kids and couldn't figure out why she was doing this. Soon she did all of the above, along with lunging to attack the visitor!! I was mortified! So, at this point I'm suspecting foul play on the part of the kids...so I set a trap. Caught them and tore them a new one (and their parents, too). Unfortunately we had to put her down (my parents decision) b/c of the fear of her hurting someone.
My point...if she was abandoned and possibly abused, this may be why she is violent. Get that check out by a behaviorlist (there are plenty on this site with extensive knowledge).

I really hope that my experience helps you figure out why Sweetie acts this way and I hope she is just fighting for dominance and that it gets worked out soon. Take care and PLEASE keep me posted!

 

[skankweirdall]

Thanks to all who have posted.

She really is an excellent dog in all other respects. When we got her we were told at the pound she was an Aussie Shephard. It wasn't until a visit to the vet that we found out she was a Border Collie. I would still have gotten her from the pound but at least I would have been better prepared had I known.

We've been working with her and she is mellowing some on Baby. So we're hopeful things will work out.

Thanks Again.

 

[brwneyesk8]

It's great to hear that Sweetie is mellowing with Baby.

Congrats and keep up your good dogownership!!!

Way to go!! :D