Need advice - overwhelmed. (Long)

[TX-Derrick]

Hi all - I usually just search and find what I need on the board, but in this case, I think it's important to lay out the facts to see if anyone has advice. Starting to freak out a bit. Thanks in advance for taking a look.

I have two boxers, Zoe and Katy. Katy is our 5-year old white boxer. A few weeks ago, I switched both dogs to Nature's Variety Raw Chicken, and Zoe is having great success. Katy on the other hand - maybe coincidentally - started having major issues ever since she started on raw. I have since taken her off and am now trying to stabalize her. As a side note, my vet is a pretty old school Sciene Diet guy, but he has been fantastic with both dogs since they were puppies, and has offered great solutions in the past.

It started with a urinary tract infection. After about a week of raw, Katy started acting run down - had red eyes, etc. I took her in, and the vet gave her shots, some ointment for me to apply, and an antibiotic. He also ran some blood work because he was worried about her kidneys. I did not tell him about the raw as I knew he would get distracted by it , and I didn't think it was a factor anyway.

So, after a few days on the antibiotics, she started improving, and I was continuing with the raw chicken. A few days later, she went back downhill - red eyes, loose stool, etc. Lab results came back fine for kidneys, but high liver readings and low thyroid. At that point, I decided to stop any raw food with her. I took her back in, and although her urinary tract was fine, she still had a fever and lots of bacteria in her stool. At this point, the vet is starting to suspect her pancreas or autoimmune disorder.

So, he put her to going on the Hills prescription diet and she currently take the following meds:

- Metronidazole (Flagyl) -- (we will be through the series of this antibiotic in a couple of days)
- Thryo tabs (vet thinks she could be on these forever)
- Viokase (liver pills will likely be long term as well)
- Centrine (upset stomach)

She has been off the raw for weeks now, but I can't help but feel like it was a trigger. I feel awful about it. She ate the Hills for a few days and her stool was better, but now she won't touch it. I started out giving her some very simple scrambled eggs and rice - but that didn't set will with her all the time, and she threw some of it up. I got the vet to agree that supplementing with boiled chicken and rice was fine, so we tried that. She keeps it down fine, but her stool is still watery. I thought maybe she was allergic to the chicken, so I tried ground beef, but stool is still watery and she is dropping weight quickly.

Am I just not giving things enough time to work? This all started about 3 weeks ago. I know the antibiotics are wreaking havoc on her digestive system, but she continues to lose weight, and I am at a loss.

Can someone please please offer some advice, or talk me off the ledge, or both.

Her stool is now watery, and her appetite is off, but she keeps down what she does eat. I am thinking of trying some oatmeal instead of rice. I just want to get her stabilized.

Thanks again.
Derrick

 

[DyckDogs]

I'm not going to be much help to you but thought I would make a couple of comments.

Our Lexi was on a raw diet since we got her as a pup. Last summer she started to vomit blood. We took her in to the vet and she had gastritous (sp?). They put her on dog food to help this. A few weeks later, we tried to put Lexi back on raw food and she ended up throwing it up. The raw diet was now to rich for her stomach.
So she is now on the prescription dog food from the vet and has no issues.
Possibly the raw diet is to rich for Katy also??

As far as the thyroid, Lexi was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism last summer. Before she was diagnosed, she became less active than normal. This is one of the symptoms. Katy's acting 'run down' may be a result of this. Just a thought?

Anyways, I hope you find out what is wrong with Katy and the vet is able to help her.
I'll be sending some good vibes for Katy.

 

[Cami]

Sorry to hear about your girls troubles!

Since you could potentially be dealing with multiple issues I would develop a plan of attack.
This is what I would do.....

Switch back to her original food. Any change in food can cause stomach distress, even going from kibble to RAW and back. I would actually take her off of food for 24 hours and give her tummy time to rest. Make sure she is getting plenty of liquids and if you feel necessary offer her some type of nutritional paste (Nutri-Cal comes to mind) for keeping some calories in her. Available at most local pet stores.

Thyroid issues can cause a HOST of various symptoms including some you have mentioned (loose stools, diarrhea, lethargy, nausea, vomiting, prone to infections, weight loss OR gain, etc....)
There are upwards of 50 different thyroid symptoms.

I'd also NIX the Thyro tabs and have your vet prescribe Soloxine. A much better choice and not a generic version of a thyroid med. If he doesn't carry it your local vet hospital or ER vet will have them. OR your vet can order them for you. Have a post pill test within 4-6 weeks of starting the meds to ensure that you are dosing at the correct levels. Too much can cause new symptoms or make current symptoms worse. Not enough and they just don't get back to "normal".
The problem with generics of thyroid meds is that you can't ever be sure if the generic version will be the same as last months supply. The Soloxine has been proven to be the BEST thyroid med and you can utilize a smaller dose as well to achieve optimum results.

I'd suspect that once you have the thyroid under control you may start to see a different dog. Infections should become less frequent (if at all) and for sure tummy issues will be alleviated (if the thyroid was the culprit).

Hopefully the liver issues will self correct due to her having a lot thrown at her at once. On the flip side you have the potential to be dealing with a healthier dog once the thyroid meds start taking affect making the other issues easier to pinpoint, treat and correct.

Keep us updated on her progress and I hope she turns the corner soon.

 

[kayboxer]

Sorry, don't know much about thyroid issues. But, I would stop the prescription diet and go to a different food, one that has limited ingredients. I would give Natural Balance a shot and see how your dog does on that. They have limited ingredient formula, much better than the science diet crap. You could try sweet potato instead of the rice if you think the rice does not agree with her. They have wet or dry formulas. Maybe you could put her on the wet formula to get her to eat and try to put some weight one her, and you could add your own cooked chicken to the food if you want. Maybe you could add some probiotics to help with digestion, I know many people here do that with their dogs that have issues. That's just my own opinion. I am not a vet so I don't know about the thyroid meds so I can't even give any opinions there. Good luck though and I hope she feels better soon.

 

[Boomer Dog]

Kayboxer is right about the prescription diet. My vet recommended it and it was horrible. Kaia lost weight, was lethargic and her stool was very loose and runny. That food is junk and probably not helping at all. I switched her to Wellness Super 5 kibble and canned. 10 fold improvement. Cami also gave me some great advice with a thyroid issue I had with a foster and it worked great. Let us know how everything shakes out

Ryan

 

[TX-Derrick]

Thanks all for the responses. I will reply in more detail when I get back to a desktop computer. I really appreciate it.

 

[silly24boxer]

Believe it on not some boxers cannot stand rice!!! Try boiled russet(peeled) potatoes and boiled chicken or ground beef.

 

[BxrMommieNAZ]

I agree with the others especially using name brand thyroid medication, and for the liver issues I'd nix whatever liver supplement you're giving and go with SAM-e, milk thistle, and Vitamin E instead.

I'd do 400mg of SAM-e daily, 1,000-2,000mg of milk thistle daily, and (1) 400 IU capsule of Vitamin E.

I've had 2 dogs and a cat with liver disease myself. Good luck!

 

[TX-Derrick]

Thanks again. She hasn't got much of an appetite today, and actually just leaked some pee on the floor. So, there's another variable to consider... sigh. Any idea how a bladder control problem factors in?

I think my problem is that when something doesn't produce results, I keep wanting to switch to something else, and that inconsistency is probably a large part of my problem.

So I am going to try (and stick with):

-Boiled chicken and oatmeal (she doesn't seem to do great on rice, and the oatmeal will help keep it all together and require her to eat them both). I read about the oatmeal option on another thread - but please let me know if you forsee any problems with it. I could also do potatoes.

-Leave some of her normal kibble down in case she is inspired to eat it.

-Call my vet tomorrow (shoot - well, Tuesday) and ask him to prescribe Soloxine instead of the Thyro. If he won't, I'll consider finding someone who will. Probably wouldn't hurt to get another opinion at this point anyway. Anyone know of a good vet in the Dallas area - preferrably north suburbs?

-Consider not feeding her this evening except for maybe some Nutri-cal paste (which she rejected about 30 min ago).

If anyone has any comments on this plan, please let me know.

Thanks,
D.

 

[BxrMommieNAZ]

AS I stated in my post I'd also add in SAM-e, milk thistle, and vitamin E for the liver. Not wanting to eat is very typical clinical signs of full blown liver disease, problem is they need to eat to help regenerate the lvier but because it isn't functioning properly they don't want to eat, you can see how this could be a vicious cycle. Simple proteins are best for the liver (NO BEEF it produces too much ammonia), chicken, turkey, eggs, soy milk (plain not the stuff with sugar in it), cottage cheese, yogurt (plain not with sugar).

Good luck.