My Girls Protected Me !!

[buddy'smom]

Wow I can't believe the direction this thread took. Dan, I still stand proud of your two girls. As I stated I too was once in a very sticky situation, however mine was where a man actually entered my home when I was alone. This was the first time that Buddy ever showed any aggression towards a human being, but I reminded myself of his protection from that day on. At first he did not react but seemed to pick up on my nervousness very quickly, as I honestly believe your two girls did. Buddy then lunged at the man, and backed him out the door. No skin was broken, but the man was put outof the house, and on the ground. I later questioned the police as to my liabilities regarding my dog protecting me. I was told no matter what, it is a known fact that a dedicated dog will protect their owner. Should my dog sense my fear and react to a situation, as long as I did not command the dog to attack, I would not be charged nor held liable. Of course, from this point on I had to really watch Buddy when a stranger came to the door, as he seemed vary wary of them, but I always felt comfort in knowing he was there if I needed him, as will your girls. Oh by the way, the man was charged with trespassing. To this day I do not know why or what his intent was for walking into my house. His excuse was he thought he knew the people who lived there. Door locks in numbers are a must for me now!!

 

[iluvboxers]

My first female bugged me one night until I let her out and she went after a man trying to break into our home, she sent his butt flying over the fence. Scared me so bad, I still thank God for her, she was the best and loved people but knew her Mom was in danger that night. Still gets me choked up, wow, I miss her.

 

[Brenda & Jeff]

abxonetwo

" I found your post sad because that is a big problem with how bad teenagers are treated in our society today, "kids will be kids" What about respect and accountability? Some people are unbelievable. "


That is what I meant by "go girl"

I apologize for any "rudeness, etc." if that was taken, it was not meant.

However, even in my classroom (inner city) I did not accept and disrespectful behavior either toward me or another student. I don't know where you live, but in a city it is scary. Even elementary students were caught brining in knives.

I also thought of a lesson I learned as a young girl (it is hard to apply to written text - but how you say something can change its meaning. A lesson which I constantly tell my son as to why our dogs are not as lovey dovey with him as they are with us - it is how he talks to them, especially when he doesn't want to be bothered with the responsibility end of things.

I personally am tired of how teenagers, and kids younger talk to me or people I know, actually, I get upset when people I know let their children do it.

Dogs, I guess are the same, how one may play growl might be misconstrued by another.

I agree with you when you say if a dog "viciously" attacks it should be put down - but I have a difficult time accepting this if the attack was due to prolonged abuse or teasing.

as far as your comments back to me:
"suppose if a pitbull attacked your child and destroyed his face beyond recognition you would also tell your child tough luck and send the owner of the pitbull roses?
You can't attack another human for swearing at you (a human's attempt to rile you) and injure them beyond belief. I don't understand how you can justify a dog doing this.... most dogs don't know when to stop when they begin attacking. It is your child, and I am not in the position to question how you raise your child."

1. My child would not provoke a pit bull (yes anything is possible) He also has been trained how to ward off an attack by a dog as much as possilbe (nothing is 100% and I am aware of that)
2. Yes people have attacked others for swearing at them - it is in the news all the time. It is not right or legal to do so, but it is done (i.e. the shooting in PA, CA, etc.)
3. Do kids know how to stop taunting & teasing once they begin? I really don't know the answer to this.
4. I agree, but to clarify, I try very hard to raise my child properly, and it is tough especially when he comes home and tells me what others are doing and why can't he, or just stories in general. Again those issues are another soap box.


I just wanted to clarify what I meant, and answer your statements. I am very careful of what environment I bring my dogs into, and it is something we really need to pay attention to.

I also, through reading all of Dan's posts can see that he was still on the adrenaline end of things when he wrote that. Again the literal vs. oral might come into play here.

Sorry so long on this message,

Brenda

 

[Krikkit]

Interesting....

I have just re-read Dan's post and have drawn the conclusion that my Boxers would have reacted in the same manner as Maggie and Susie. Keep in mind this is my assumption from what I read only. It appears as if it was indeed a threatening siutation, or a percieved threatening situation, and Dan was afraid (as I would have been). My own Boxers would have been on full alert and I imagine if my fear did not override my common sense I could have controlled them, but I can not say that for sure as I was not in that situation. It seems as if the dogs reaction was a perfectly normal dog reaction, Dan's reaction was a perfectly normal human reaction. I think it is highly likely that many breeds, in the Working Group at least, would have done the same.
~~~~~~
The Boxer standard:

American -
Character and Temperament
These are of paramount importance in the Boxer. Istinctively a "hearing" guard dog, his bearing is alert, dignified and self-assured. In the show ring, his behavior should exhibit constrained animation. With family and friends, his temperament is fundamentally playful, yet patient and stoical with children. Deliberate and wary with strangers, he will exhibit curiosity, but, most importantly, fearless courage if threatened. However, he responds promptly to friendly overtures honestly rendered. His intelligence, loyal affection and tractability to discipline make him a highly desirable companion.

Faults Lack of dignity and alertness. Shyness.

UK -
CHARACTERISTICS
The character of the Boxer is of the greatest importance and demands the most careful attention. He is renowned from olden times for his great love and faithfulness to his master and household, his alertness, and fearless courage as a defender and protector. The Boxer is docile but distrustful of strangers. He is bright and friendly in play but brave and determined when roused. His intelligence and willing tractability, his modesty, and cleanliness make him a highly desirable family dog and cheerful companion. He is the soul of honesty and loyalty. He is never false or treacherous even in his old age.

FCI -
BEHAVIOUR/TEMPERAMENT
The Boxer should be free of nervousness, self assured, calm and balanced. Temperament is of utmost importance and requires most careful attention. Devotion and loyalty towards his master and his whole own people, his watchfulness and fearless courage in defence have long been famous. He is harmless with his family but suspicious towards strangers, happy and friendly in play, yet fearless in a serious situation. Easy to train on account of his willingness to obey, his pluck and courage, natural keenne and sense of smell. Undemanding and clean, he is just as agreeable and valuable in the family circle as he is as a guard, companion or working dog. His character is trustworthy with no guile or cunning, even in old age.
~~~~~~

There have been some interesting points raised here regarding responsible dog ownership and responsible parenting. I believe that the majority of dog owners do try to be as responsible as possible as do the majority of parents. As mentioned above I think my four Boxers would have reacted the same way as Dan's. In saying that these same Boxers are used for school visits / hospital visits and in public education regarding dog ownership and dog behavior. They are in the public eye around 3 to 5 days out of 7. Bella has a special job in helping young children overcome fear of dogs.

As I said, some interesting comments, but please remember not to get personal. Discussion is welome here, flames and personal attacks are not. Thanks.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

abxonetwo,

I do respect your opinions and am really glad that you posted them here. We may disagree, but I certainly respect your right to your opinions.

You're right. You were not here and were not witness to the incident so you don't really know the extent of the threat or what actually went down. Perhaps the brevity of my original post didn't adequately indicate the seriousness of the threat. I said that one boy said "think we can take 'em" but then, it wasn't a gang chant. I wouldn't expect all of them to say it in unison. One instigates the action and the rest follow. It is classic gang mentality and behavior.

I also agree with you that an unprovoked attack by a dog, especially upon a child, would be justifiable grounds to put the dog down. Even if it were my own dog, I would not want to take the chance of that dog every hurting another human being. And yes, I had no intention of letting my dogs "go" after those boys. I was holding onto them for dear life, believe me. But perhaps my words in my post didn't accurately reflect the raucousness and intimidating whoops and cat calls and rude names ("f*****," "f*** that fairy," etc., etc.), feet stomping and cat calling of the other kids in the group. The boy's comment "think we can take 'em" only began the incident. I suppose that in my state of mind, shortly after the incident, I was not specific enough in my post to indicate to you just how serious (and all of what went down) the threat was.

When the first group moved around me, my dogs were not snarling or barking. Susie rose up on her hind legs and was wiggling her little tail. Maggie just stood there. It wasn't until the taunting and threats (and yes, I considered them very serious threats) began and THEN, the snarling and barking and aggressive behavior began.

One more thing in defense of my dogs. I live in Brooklyn, New York, three blocks from one of the roughest, most violent high schools in all of New York City! Every kid in that school carries a weapon and they are dangerous. The police patrol the neighborhood every day before and after school and they are CONSTANTLY arresting gang bangers and trouble makers from that school. There are armed police patrolling the school hallways during classes as well. It is a very dangerous school. The kids ARE gang members and very, very dangerous. This is the inner city and believe me, these kids have NO respect for LIFE, let alone anyone else and their idea of a good dog is a pit bull who wins in the dog fight and makes them a ton of money they can use to buy dope! Believe me these kids are not your average "boys will be boys" type of kids. They come to the park with their pit bulls and look for dog fights. THAT is criminal in my opinion.

All I can say is that I was very, very frightened for my safety and well being. I'm glad my dogs were there to protect me. They are guard dogs and that is what they are supposed to do. Also one of the reasons I chose to have boxers instead of a peekapoo or some other small yappy dog.

Come to Brooklyn, my friend, bring your dog and take a walk around at 11:00 on a Saturday night. I guarantee you, there will be moments when you are so afraid you'll pee your pants. I think your dog would also be on "guard" and do his best to protect you in any such situation as I was in. I hope and pray that no one is ever in the same situation I was in, but if they do find themselves there, I also hope that they have a dog or dogs like mine who will protect them with their lives if necessary. I know I'd protect my dogs with my life if I had to. I'm sure you would do the same.

Respectfully yours,

Brooklyn-Dan






[Edited by Bocsirs on 03-13-2001 at 02:20 AM]

 

[kitten]

dan I'm so glad your ok ...... I have most of me family in NY and the stories of brooklyn have scared me enough I could see inbetween the lines you need not have to say them for my ears... your lucky you could of been shot you and your girls just for fun. or you and your girls taken to use and bait dogs for training of a fighting dog its not pretty in that city and I've been tought at a young age to respect that place and to fear it at night.

yes I was so proud of your girls I had tears in my eyes, and I could of hugged you all but it could of not stoped when it did you were lucky.my father was shot thare (in 90')I've learned first hand to fear that city ........

 

[Elsa]

Re: Re: Re: this is not a flame! please don't take it as one!

Originally posted by abxonetwo

Originally posted by Elsa

You would also suggest that kids are just "being kids"; that does not excuse threatening behavior on their part. I found your post sad because that is a big problem with how bad teenagers are treated in our society today, "kids will be kids" What about respect and accountability? Some people are unbelievable.

Elsa,

I am going to assume that 'Some people are unbelievable' was your attempt to rile me up. In the next post, Brenda then proceeds to give you a 'high five.' If I was to use your own logic, I would be on my way to your houses right now to injure you(possibly seriously... depending on how soon I am stopped or decide to stop). I am glad (and I bet you are too) that I am so 'unbelievable.'
Thank You- [/QUOTE]

No attempt to rile you up was made on my part; if that is what you thought, you are mistaken and that belief was solely yours. I enjoy intelligent dialogue and heated discussion. Your post did come across as very confontational; whether you meant for it to be or not. I take no offense at all to your response to me; we are having a discussion, are we not?

It was you who threw the flaming attack at Dan; suggesting that his dogs have a "problem". I don't know Dan personally but I do know his Maggie and Susie are very precious to him, as is my Ruby to me and it is no different than if you were to attack someone about their human kids. I also disagree with you saying that without a doubt the dogs would be put down. The dogs would be impounded and an investigation would occur.

As Dan has stated, character witnesses would come into play. In addition, Dan's dogs are not kept chained up in a backyard, they live indoors with him and he takes the time to take them on regular walks, and to the play park; a responsible pet owner. If a lawsuit were to take place, the totality of the circumstances would be taken into consideration; I, too, have some knowledge of the law, from a scholastic standpoint, but not to get too far off the subject...

As far as these kids are concerned, why do you think legislation is being passed in many states to try individuals under the age of 18 as adults??? Because there is a need for it! Kids are not what they used to be!!! Hate crimes among kids are rampant and they commit them just because they are bored. The comment "Boys will be Boys" is absurd in the face of a world where kids under the age of 15 commit heinous crimes, hate crimes, and hide under the guise of "I'm just a kid".

I would expect Ruby, my cream puff/people-loving Boxer to protect me when her instincts see to it that it is warranted. Her extincts are honed much better than mine. I tend (regretfully) to judge people based on appearance or demeanor or past experience. A dog does not judge, a dog accustomed to being surrounded by decent people and as intelligent as a Boxer just knows.

 

[alisonCO]

Wow! All I can say is that I am so glad that you and your girls are OK, Dan. Although I have never been in such a scary situation, I have been confronted twice by men in a weird way. Both times Tucker has put himself in front of me (he literally sat on my feet.) He didn't move until these men walked away. I just don't understand how people can think that saying "do you think we can take them" wasn't a threatening comment. These "boys" directly threatened to harm Dan. I think that just the way they approached was threatening enough. I have to agree with the majority here and say that Susie and Maggie did a great thing. They are very brave girls.

 

[Peggy G]

Originally posted by abxonetwo

I suppose if a pitbull attacked your child and destroyed his face beyond recognition you would also tell your child tough luck and send the owner of the pitbull roses?

[/B]

I must of missed something here. I didnt see the post where Dan said his dogs ripped the faces off those kids. (Although, by your reaction and remarks I would think thats what they did and that Dan was praising them for doing so.)

I would also like to point out that your words were indeed "harsh" (and disrespectful -suggesting that Dans dogs "have a problem") but then when someone challenged your post (just as you did Dans), you took it as disrespect because they didnt agree with you. Then you asked for respect then said you were "without respect-closing the tread". Keep in mind, YOU started the conversation. Did you want everyone to just politely agree with you then that should be the end of the discussion?

[Edited by Peggy G on 03-13-2001 at 04:45 AM]

 

[TeriLynne]

Wow!

I just can't imagine how frightened you must of been. What a situation to be in, jeezz!! And bless your dog's hearts, I love your story. I just got back from walking our boxer. I am always afraid of walking into a situation, but for me that situation is having a loose dog, or dogs come after my boxer boy on the street. Kanobie is so strong, just all muscle, but to be attacked by dog's all at one time that are just running loose around the neighborhood scares me to death. He would'nt have a chance, but I'd sure try to do anything I could to help him. I think that this is how our dogs feel about us too, they would try very hard to protect us as well. The other day we were walking with our boxer. A truck pulled up by us and two teenage boys got out and said, "Man, thats a bitchin lookin boxer!" They never came up to him to pet him, but just kept saying that and looking at our boy Kanobie. I just could'nt help but to remember a story I read about. How boxers are used in fighting, and the majority of the owners for these fights are teenage boys. Boxers are sometimes stolen from loving families, and put into the most horrifying situation to be trained and used for fighting. I was very quiet. My husband did all the talking with them. One was very intoxicated obviously. Kanobie just stayed right in front of me against my legs. He normally would greet, but did'nt this time. I am probably being silly, but I love my boxer and want to keep him safe. I love him so much!
Thanks for your inspiration with your story.
TeriLynne